Energy Tech Startups

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0:15 Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show and today. What show are we on? Oh, yeah. What show are we on? Okay, I'm going to start again. No, it's fine. No. Okay, yeah. We're, well, I

0:29 think we have an intro That says what show we were on. Yeah, we are. No, we're on the Energy Tech startup podcast until we change the name to something else. But that's where we are today.

0:40 And have you been doing this for now more than a year? I think we're on like your two right now, like well into it. So we're joking because we do Thunderwatch, like every Monday now, and it's

0:50 like slightly different format. And we still see each other every week, but we haven't actually done this recording in like three months. But that's something we should put a plug in for everybody

0:58 that's listening. is that every Monday, Jason and I go live on LinkedIn and also YouTube, and we do kind of a recap of what happened last week and what is coming next week. We kind of touched on

1:10 what's happening on the kind of macro level in terms of policy and what we're seeing in terms of big fundraising that's coming up or has happened. And also talk locally about the events that we've

1:24 been to and some of the events that we're doing. Yeah, and how it impacts kind of local So that's not what we're here to talk about. Today we're here with Rianne Parker, who's our member at Energy

1:34 Tech Nexus. And she is the founder and CEO of Loop Bioprodux and also the Loop Institute that we will also get into. So thank you for being here, Rianne. Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

1:47 Yeah, so tell us a little bit about how you fell into Loop Bioproducts, what it is exactly And also like the background of how you kind of came into, tackling this specific problem. Yeah, so,

2:03 yeah, Loop's focus is very cactus-centric, and it's like the funniest way to describe a business, but yeah, it's all about cactus. So we are here to solve the problem of our domestic biomass

2:16 availability within the US, and particularly we are focused on semi-arid marginal land. We see this as a massive opportunity and a massive driver of our ability to increase the domestically

2:31 available biomass, and whether that's for bioenergy production or other novel bio products. That's kind of our jam. So I think just in regard to the journey and what brought me here, I've always

2:44 been a huge botany nerd, love, nature, all of these things. And so there was a real natural fit with this and a natural curiosity around this type of business. I think one thing that people

3:00 always kind of comment on is, wow, you've had this like really unusual journey, right? So I studied neuroscience in school and ended up, you know, after I defended my thesis, I was, I was

3:13 pretty burnt out. I was working on circadian rhythm. So this meant being in the lab at like 4 am. and looking at sleep deprivation and these kinds of things. And my, my family stepped in and they

3:26 were like, you are exhausted, you need to take a break before, you know, pursuing med school. That's super interesting that you were studying the science of the brain. And then you kind of had a

3:37 burnout. Oh, yeah. So like I was doing all of the things that my research showed cause the death of brain cells. So it was like, you know, sleep deprivation, lack of exercise, all the things,

3:50 right? So anyways, I agreed to go work from my family's business in Calgary. So I agreed to work for one year, move from Vancouver to Calgary, to yeah, just pay off my student loans and take a

4:04 break. And so my family business was a boutique kind of health and safety and risk management firm in Calgary with 99 oil and gas clients, but also like transport and heavy industry.

4:18 And I guess part of my personality is I can't look at things that are inefficient or broken or, you know, and do nothing about it. So one year turned into four years and, you know, optimizing the

4:29 business. And I love sales. Like I don't know, I don't know that I ever, I would have called it that, but I just, I love relationships. I love talking to people. And so, yeah, one year

4:42 turned into four years. And then my dad and I actually started a sister company. That was a, it was basic. a SaaS offering focus on incident investigation and risk mitigation. So we brought that

4:54 to market, had some amazing clients in oil and gas, and that brought me to Texas. So that was kind of Houston 10 and some amazing times in oil and gas. And then we went to London and I actually

5:08 had to like reinvent myself at that time. I came on maternity leave and was like completely unknown to the UK market. And I was like, okay, what now? And I ended up working as a chief operating

5:21 officer at InterTech. So we were focused on a lot of ISO auditing and they're referred to as an ATIC company. So it's assurance testing inspections and certifications.

5:33 So yeah, it's like this really interesting journey from neuroscience to oil and gas to more of the auditing and that side of things And my husband works at Shell and we had the opportunity to come

5:46 back to Houston. in 2022, and I just felt like it was time, right? It was time to come back to energy, but in a way that aligned with my moral compass. And so just, yeah, ended up having this

6:00 opportunity presented to me to get involved in this space. And did a lot of due diligence as, you know, as to whether that was something that was a good fit and decided to take it on. So I think

6:11 there's no better place to do that than in Texas. It's been a really incredible journey What are maybe some of the skills that you think you kind of carry with you through all of that that you do?

6:21 What's like the common thread? Yeah, I think, well, I think I am more curious about things that like most people find absolutely benign, right? Like that is like, if you want to talk a

6:33 superpower or something that, and my best friends, like they give me a really hard time. They're like, you know, we're going on a walk together and you can name every tree or, you know, why,

6:43 why do you care? Why do you find this stuff interesting? In oil and gas, I wrote a course on oil field corrosion and sulfur-producing bacteria because I thought it was interesting and I thought it

6:53 would be helpful to leadership and to improve safety in the field, right?

6:60 You're under like that. Oh yeah, I love it and you know, but that was actually a massive source of my success and you know, being in oil and gas at that time, you know, there was, I mean, they

7:14 did a 50 workforce reduction and I survived that as a contractor because I continued to bring value like that, right? You know, I saw some things going on in the field that I, you know, I had a

7:27 hypothesis on. So I basically without being asked, went and did ride-alongs with every single position in the field and my colleagues at, you know, at headquarters were in Houston were like, why

7:39 would you bother, like, why, almost like, why stoop to that level? Yeah. It's like, what are you doing? And it's like, because that's where the answers are, right? And you have to be

7:49 curious enough and respectful enough to say, you know, this doesn't work without these guys, right? This doesn't work without them. And let's like check the ego at the door and figure out what's

8:00 going on. And I found some incredible things, right? And but also those guys, you know, I would be invited to the crawfish boils because they're like, wow, you're actually taking the time And

8:12 you legitimately care, right? So I had a lot of buy-in in the field and in at the boardroom, right? So I think I think that is also a big thing is having respect for people no matter whether

8:21 they're the lowest ranking person or, you know, and I guess that's a

8:29 really interesting thing. So I did, I forgot to talk about that, working for a disability nonprofit in London. That was after intertech. So I worked, this is a CEO led community. So I worked

8:41 with C-suite, C-suite minus one of 500 of the world's biggest companies, and so to be able to hang with that crew and to have meaningful discourse that drives system level change, but also to be

8:57 respectful and talk to the sea level operator in the oil field. But I think all of this also speaks to sometimes we talk to experts who have like 30 years of experience working on corrosion, like

9:10 something very specific and that we can find that very intimidating sometimes because you're like, you know, hey, I don't have that much experience or I have done so many different things in my

9:19 career, but the value of that diversity of experience also that you bring in that allows you in this new venture that you're launching now to bring in those different aspects of the world where you

9:32 have experience from and then also use the connections from there. So talk to us a little bit about that, how you've done that. Yeah, I think so I had a professor at Oxford that was like brilliant

9:43 minds I think I've ever come across and he's an expert in network theory, like social networks. And what he really encouraged us to look at and to, and I guess change the way we think about is how

9:57 information is brokered at this time, right? So you think about the amount of information that is publicly available at this time, you can find just about anything. I think, you know, what we

10:07 have with generative AI has also changed that because you know, these models have been fed every known piece of research or whatever on a given topic. And so there's a tremendous amount of

10:18 information available. And so although it's tremendously useful to the population at large, it's actually degraded its value, right? Because you can find it anywhere, right? You can't find the

10:29 source, you mean? Well, not well, that's a whole other thing, primary sources and secondary sources and things like that. But it's just, it's like, Oh, did you hear that? Like, so think

10:39 about you guys. Did you hear that? you know, so-and-so raise their series D or, you know, It's so easy to find information right now. Yeah, right, and so what you've heard - Of the uniqueness

10:50 of that data. Yeah, so what you've heard, she's probably also heard, Juliana's probably also heard many of the members at ETN. Or you can very easily ask chat, chat, JPT, and they'll tell you,

10:58 right, yeah. And so what he is saying is where the true value lies is in the private information, right? So information that is brokered across disparate areas of a network So when you bring

11:10 people that you wouldn't normally think have really anything to do with each other, that's where these kind of nodes of innovation and these nodes of value happen. And so he was actually applying it

11:24 to a very human perspective and saying, when you have these people that become a node, that those are the really successful ones because if they can broke her knowledge across all of these different

11:35 things, they're indispensable to multiple. pockets, right? So I think that that is me in a lot of ways because I have these very, very interests. I love relationship building, things like that.

11:50 I have my hands in a lot of different things. And it's interesting. I notice people can view that as a negative. Like, in some ways, they're like, wow, you've done a lot of things like, well,

12:01 you know, you're in the neuroscience community, you're in oil and gas, you're in disability, like, who are you and what are you doing? And it's like, but is does that matter or is that

12:11 something that isn't up positive, right? But in some ways, it seems like our era, like our generation, what we were told is you, it's that singular question, what do you want to be when you

12:22 grow up? And that's a singular thing, right? And so I think what we're seeing is we're in this era where the world is moving so fast, like, think about the rise of a gigantic AI and, you know,

12:34 all the things. There are new things popping up all the time. And I don't know that. that works to be one thing, right? You have to stay, you know, abreast of everything moving, right? So,

12:46 but we've been told, like, if you're successful, you'll be a lawyer, a doctor, you know, whatever it is, you're gonna focus on a thing, right? Yeah, it doesn't have to be. Talk to us about,

12:58 you know, so this opportunity came to you, you were like, okay, this is a good idea, let's take cactus and convert it into cactus. And I still wanna know more about like what the, I love cactus,

13:06 like eating cactus, tell me about the value of the cactus. Yeah, tell us about the value. Yeah, so yeah, when you think about it as a crop, you know, why I'm so enamored with this is it's

13:17 resilience, right? So

13:21 cactus, this type of cactus in particular, which is a punch, that's the scientific name, it's commonly known as prickly pear. That's how I eat, that's it. Yeah, Nepalese, right? Nepalese.

13:33 It's culturally revered. So that's a really exciting side of it too. When you look at even the CPG market, it's having a moment at Expo West. It was basically the color of the year or the flavor

13:50 of the year. It's how they eat it. It's a massive moment. Well, so yeah, the traditional way you basically fry it. There's lots of places in Houston where you can get Nepali tacos, stewed

14:06 Nepali. It's

14:08 really actually amazing in a salad as well, also just eating it fresh. I know I do, I have to be honest. I just wanted to grocery store one. Yeah, so and you can find it in almost any grocery

14:18 store here because it has cultural significance definitely within Latin culture, but also North Africa It's a very culturally revered crop. So that's the green part of the country. the pads, right?

14:34 But then you've actually got the fruit. So you've got the prickly pear fruit. That kind of tastes, it's kind of like a cross between a berry and a watermelon. So

14:45 when we're talking about the consumer packaged goods and like food and beverage, that is what's really having the moment. So you're seeing companies like prickly and Caliwater and even a lot of the

14:56 breweries and things that are incorporating prickly pear into it. And I think when we look at these themes of what people are interested in, it's getting back to basics, just hydration, right?

15:10 Like all of these getting away from these sickly sugary, you know, things. And so when you've got something that's naturally sweet, then that's why it's having such success, right? So yeah,

15:24 that's on the kind of the food side of things. They're definitely having a moment there. But then on the bioenergy production side of things.

15:34 Yeah, it's just compositionally makes a great biomass or a feedstock. And for us, our focus initially was on anaerobic digestion, so using that to produce biogas. But then some of the other

15:51 opportunities that we're in right now and a couple of the grants that we're applied for under the DOE were focused on alcohol to jet fuel, so actually using the oil from the seeds of the fruit to

16:03 look at that pathway. So very, very dynamic. And I think I started a little bit on the physiology, but the apuncha cactus photosynthesizes in a way that's completely different than probably, you

16:17 know, almost everything, right? So 99 of all plants, so it's called a CAM photosynthesizer, which means that it preferentially respires when we talk about photosynthesis, it preferentially

16:26 respires at night.

16:32 So it basically shuts down its stomata during the day. And that's what makes it so resilient to these extreme climates and heat, right? So you mean like, 'cause usually plants they release you to

16:45 at night. Correct. And so when you say it respires, what does that mean? Well, so when it's opening up its stomata, it's - Tell us what stomata is for the rest of the time. Sorry, I'm sorry.

16:58 It's basically like the opening It's almost like a pore on the - Do you call it the pad? Yeah, the pad. On a pad. It's a flattened stem, if you want a technical - So on the pad, there's these

17:09 little pores that are open up. Yeah, on an every plant, right? And so that is the mechanism that - And is it like a gas exchange membrane? Or is it more like a - Yes, yes. It's a - Like a port.

17:18 Think of it as a port, right? And so when those are open during the day or extreme heat, that can actually really affect the plant So, cam photosynthesizers can, you know, preferentially do that

17:31 at night and that makes it a lot more resilient. So. That's fascinating. So they can hold up all the, like I guess, energy. Yes. In like the chemistry doesn't go all the way. Exactly. To

17:42 creating the energy and then at night they can kind of complete the process. Yes. Yeah, and it's like cooler at night so probably not opening the pores. It doesn't let the water out. Yeah,

17:50 exactly. And then the other thing I think when people hear about cactus and hear about what we're doing, they immediately go to the, you know, the Swaro, the, you know, cylindrical cactus and

18:00 that, you know, that takes like a hundred years to get, right? No, no, no, my next question is, yeah, what's the, usually when you think about crops, it's know you, all about cycle time.

18:09 Like what can start producing output within a year? Yeah, exactly. So this is harvestable within 120 days. It's a, it's more of like a herbaceous shrub, right? So that is like one of the

18:22 biggest kind of like misnomers or I guess misconceptions about it is that we're not talking a long growth period here. about a shrub and that grows very rapidly, right? Also, it's a perennial crop.

18:36 So it's harvestable 365 days a year. We don't have these fallow periods. We don't have the need to store things the way we do with corn and soy and things. So that's a massive advantage. I also

18:50 kind of through this journey of become aware of these kind of these blackout periods, if you will, with the crop availability certainly in the winter. So when you have availability to keep these

19:02 projects going, you need things that you can harvest during the winter. So it has a lot going for it. When we look at the ease of the crop, the ease of cultivation and scaling, the crop is

19:18 actually clonally propagated. So what that means is you literally just start with a single pad. planted in the ground and, you know, when I planted in March of 2024, within a few days, I had new

19:32 pads popping almost like bunny ears off the top, right? So they grow very rapidly. And then my focus, you know, being such a new startup and scaling this, and this is the big challenge with the

19:45 business. I knew what I was getting into. I knew that I would be pre-revenue for two years as I'm scaling the crop, but I'm not taking any of that material at this time to produce bioenergy. It's

19:56 100 of the plant material is going to scale it and to make this a commercially scaled purpose-grown energy crop, right? So, yeah, you plant the initials, you give them time to grow the daughters,

20:10 you know, off of there, you harvest those, and then you plant, right? And you basically like, you just clip off the pad, like the daughter pad, and then just plant it into the ground, right?

20:20 So it's wonderfully simple. And I guess common plants that people have at home that do this already, like I know Donkeytail does this. Yeah, you can propagate lots of different things, right?

20:29 Like a lot of cuttings, you know, there's a lot of people that are doing, you know, hormones on roots, so, you know, you take a little snippet of Rosemary or whatever. So it is, yeah, this

20:39 concept, right? So yeah, very nerdy. There's some really wonderful technology out of Brazil for mechanical harvesting, 'cause that was always a big concern or criticism of the scalability of this

20:55 crop is, well, you know, they're having to hand harvest because of the complexity of the shrub itself. So there's some, you know, technology on the mechanical harvesting side that came out of

21:07 Brazil. Embrappa,

21:09 basically, Embrappa did a lot with this crop, and this particular type of cactus actually saved Brazil's, livestock industry because it enabled them to survive the drought, they feed it to the

21:24 cattle. So Brazil is a real hub of this technology as well. Interesting. Yeah, so I think we've solved for a couple of the key issues in scaling this and making it viable. Let's talk about the

21:38 business model a little bit. Is it traditional, I don't know what a traditional farm looks like, but I assume you're growing biomass, you sell it to a market, it's different parts of the biomass

21:49 use for different things. Like it does scale come from building a bigger farm or do you kind of sell the techniques or technology to other people? Like where does this go longer? I think both, and

22:01 that's, you know, so that's where the technoeconomics of it get very interesting. So what kills this business model is the transport side of things. The cactus is 90 water, right?

22:14 Yeah, we've been working on a couple of things to solve for that, but one of the most important things is basically parking that biomass next to whatever, the kind of the industrial side of

22:26 whatever you're choosing to do with it, right? So,

22:30 yeah, so there's just traditional off-take, if you have, let's say, on a dairy, like on a farm where they have anaerobic digesters, it actually works very well to co-digest with manure and other

22:44 things, so you can actually work with farmers to have that parked right up against there. It's actually wonderful for them in regard to an alternative livestock feed as well, so those models work

22:57 very well. But then also,

23:02 like when we're looking at the precision fermentation space, there's some really exciting stuff that we're working on in regard to cactus as a source of fermentable sugars, so just making sure,

23:12 again, whatever you're, you know, the scaled crop is available and within a distance that makes it economically viable, right? So lots of different things there.

23:26 So I know you had a very interesting journey in actually acquiring this cactus. Yeah. Cactus, I don't know about that. Oh, you mean driving across the country with a new haul? Yes. Yeah. So

23:39 that is the challenge here, right? Like there's basically unlimited supplies of this. In Mexico, I'm connected with 60, 000 growers there. Huge volumes of it in Brazil. I'm actually one,

23:52 probably one of the only companies in the US that has the permit to import the live plant material. Oh, you do have a permit? I do have a permit, but this is where risk modeling comes into play,

24:06 right? So I was looking at bringing 50, 000 plants at a very low cost. Um, and figured out the whole process with the USDA and the permitting and basically what it comes down to is if there's a

24:19 single bug on your plant material, they'll burn the entire thing and as they should, right? We don't want to be introducing new threats or risks. So I just felt like, you know, as my first,

24:30 this was literally my first foray into the agricultural side of things and getting that side of it up and running and it just felt too risky, right? And so then it was like, okay, well, what do I

24:42 do? What do I do now? How do I move forward? Do I take the risk and bootstrapping it? You know, that's even more significant to us as a family and our, you know, personal finances. But yeah,

24:55 so I decided to just go slower, you know, start smaller than I had originally anticipated and found a source in California.

25:07 Again, like it's just, it's really interesting, the logistic side of things. So basically what I figured out, my original plan was to just take a, get a flight to California and then get a

25:19 one-way U-Haul back home, but realize that that market is cornered, right? So it was just insanely expensive to do that. So like, okay. Oh, to drive a U-Haul from one side of this day. Oh,

25:32 one way, right? Like so all of these companies have a stronghold on this And it was like 10 times more expensive than any other option, right? They're doing the round trip. Yeah, so ended up

25:44 driving from Houston to just outside of Fresno, California. My sister decided to come and be my co-pilot to stay awake. And we started with 4, 000 plants, so loaded them all up And literally like.

26:04 loaded them and then headed home two hours later. So it was 32 hours each way. Yeah, probably not four days of just like non stop driving. But it was,

26:17 yeah, it was one of the most rewarding, exciting things to get home, you know, to the farm, which is just outside of college station, you know, and and get it and get up and running. So that

26:28 was, you know, the agricultural side of things has been so humbling, but so rewarding Right. And so that was the start of the agricultural journey, getting those planted out and, you know, um,

26:42 I mean, one talked to us a little bit about how you got the land because that's not easy. Um, how you got access to the land and also you also have spoken about, you know, you met some great

26:50 people who helped you actually farm the cactus. Yeah. Um,

27:01 Yes, so it was actually some colleagues from Murphy Oil that have a family farm just outside of college station. So it's a 100 acre farm. It's been in their family for a really long time. And they

27:09 had a desire to just have more things going on there. Their Aggies, they wanna connect with the academic community. They wanna see students out there. They loved this idea And actually it was so

27:25 interesting 'cause Jake, the landowner, when we were having kind of our initial meeting there when he'd said, okay, I think this is like four acres that could work really well for you. He was

27:37 like, please don't get upset with me, but like I've been trying to kill this stuff out here for years, right? And I was like, no, don't worry. But yeah, it's basically a sand pit. When you

27:48 look at the soil composition, it is, Yeah, almost pure sand. And so that was, I think they were like, let's see what this chick's made of. And, you know, if she can make this happen out there.

27:60 But they're super supportive. And Jake has a long history in the tractor industry. And just, and this is actually one of the things I think is so important. The respect that we need to give to

28:11 people that have different backgrounds, right? So in oil and gas, you see a lot of engineers that come out of these amazing programs, Imperial College, Colorado School of Mines, et cetera. And

28:24 they're trained on the latest and greatest, like SCADA, INE, these types of things. But then when you get them out to the field and something goes wrong, and you have to go back to pneumatic

28:36 control, a lot of

28:39 them just haven't had that experience or their minds don't think that way, right? But then you've got the guys that grew up on farms or grew up just, being in their garages, fixing their trucks

28:50 with their dads or whatever. And so may not have the academic background, but those are the guys that you want out there, right? And so I love that about this relationship on the farm. Jake

29:03 has so much expertise, he's taught me so much. And I think he has a way of making things less intimidating. So whether it's getting on a ride on or, you know, like tilling or, you know, just

29:18 different things, like getting the fence set up and what we need to do to prevent the wild hogs from getting in. And like the wild hogs would take down the crop in a night if they got in there,

29:29 right? So yeah,

29:32 it's a very, it's a wonderful relationship. I'm super grateful to them. And I think they're loving being a part of the journey too. Yeah. Are you ready to lead the decarbonization charge? Energy

29:44 Technexes is your platform for growth, offering unique resources and expertise for energy in carbon tech founders. Join us at

29:53 energytechnexascom and start building your Thunderlisset.

29:56 So you're talking about the soil being, not like sandy, I guess. There's a part of me that's wondering what, is this just people have farmland and they don't use it? Yeah. Because it's

30:07 underutilized resource and they're putting all their capital into a smaller portion of the land to grow like a high yield crop And so like sometimes people just like, they have this piece of land.

30:20 Like I think this is a really common thing in Texas people have a ranch, right? They have a ranch that they go out to for the weekend because land is very cheap here and or you know, was more so at

30:31 the time that they purchased it. So it's literally sitting there doing nothing, right? Egraculturally. And I think actually one big thing that happened at zero week after my presentation at ETN

30:43 was a landowner came up to me. and was like, I have a hundred acres near Austin, like I'd love to talk to you. We, you know, and these are the mountain movers. These are the people that are,

30:54 you know, they've had longstanding histories within their own families of farming and a certain way of doing things. And these are people that are committed to saying, Hey, I hear you. I hear

31:05 what you're saying about regenerative agriculture or these different concepts. And I want to be a change maker within my own family and try something new, right? And these are tough conversations

31:15 for them to have because maybe somebody, the dad, or whoever is like, No, we've done it this way for however long we don't do that. Or that's bullshit, sorry, can I swear?

31:27 I swear, yeah, I'm sorry. But where I'm going with this question is, this isn't a new phenomenon. This is something that's kind of always happened in this land where it's just underutilized. And

31:36 because the technology or the crop just wasn't known to us here in the US, right? You also said another keyword. You said regenerative agriculture. Tell us a little bit about what that means and

31:48 what that means to the farmer. Yeah, so this is something I'm really passionate about. I think it is a hotspot for greenwashing. I think that a lot of people love to drop that word and, you know,

32:01 like, oh, it sounds so good. Like, yeah, we love what you're doing. But, you know, a lot of people, if you push them or prod them, which I, yeah, I -

32:12 I do. It's like, OK, so cool. What are you doing? And then the conversation ends there, right? Or their agronomic understanding, you know, soil science, agronomy, like, it's just, yeah,

32:25 there's nothing, right? So people like to say that. But there are some really interesting things that we can do. And so just getting into that regenerative agriculture, I think is looking at.

32:38 the way that we've degraded our soils, right? And so there's something, there's basically like a whole ecosystem that exists around the roots of, around the roots. So this is called the

32:50 rhizosphere. And so basically what happens is there are biochemical signals that are passed back and forth between the root and the microorganisms that live in the soil. So we're talking about like

33:03 bacteria, fungus, bugs Yeah, mycelium, we've got insects, we've got microbes. And so this is what we refer to as the plant microbiome interactions, right? And so if you think about it,

33:17 there's reciprocity, there's reciprocal or symbiotic relationships that exist between the plants and these microorganisms. And so when a plant, for example, calls out biochemically to say, Hey,

33:30 I need some nitrogen, You know, bacteria will migrate and give it.

33:37 right? And that's where we see really healthy soils. We see soil structure starting to be built up. We see living soil instead of just dirt, dead.

33:49 But what happens is if we're using a lot of synthetic fertilizers, the plant is basically like, well, I don't need you. I'm getting that nitrogen at this synthetic fertilizer. And so the microbes

34:05 and the other microorganisms migrate out of that soil because it's not reciprocal or symbiotic anymore. And

34:12 so I think it's so interesting talking about subsurface in oil and gas, this focus. And now there's this subsurface renaissance happening in regard to agriculture, where we're understanding that

34:24 more than we ever have, we're understanding a lot more about mycelium and, you know, their role in things and the biodiversity of that whole aspect. of things. So it's a very exciting space, I

34:38 think, actually, in regard to precision fermentation, that's also a really exciting space where we're now having these biophertilizers that are coming to market that are based on an understanding

34:49 of these plant microbiome interactions. So yeah, if somebody comes and talks about that stuff, it's like, okay, you do get it, right? Or cover crops are another amazing way that we can do this.

35:01 So when we look at things like nitrogen fixing legumes

35:05 in that family, so if you have the cactus and you plant the cover crops alongside it, you're finding a natural way to infuse nitrogen into the soil instead of the use of these synthetic fertilizers.

35:20 So cover crops and focusing on these. Why are they called cover crops? Well, because they're covering the ground, right? So we don't ever want to see bare soil. We want to you know, something

35:33 there and because it washes away or was it washes away, but also it, you know, it's a weeds will come the way different things like that different from ground cover. Yeah, yeah, but, you know,

35:43 this, this gets back to another really interesting point is, is paying respect to indigenous knowledge keepers and people that might not, you know, align with academia or things like that But the

35:56 indigenous people knew about nitrogen fixation for basically, since time immemorial, we see references to the three sisters. So this is corn squash and beans. And when you look at that, it's all

36:09 about nitrogen fixation and the different root systems and things that make them like symbiotic, right? So that's something, and especially with cactus because of its cultural significance and

36:20 reverence, I work really hard to make sure that that's a part of our business Okay, and so why is the time now for the company to exist? I think.

36:33 really, so our focus is on food, energy, and water, right? So the food side of things, yes, you've got the consumer packaged goods and that whole side of things that we talked about, but we're

36:44 seeing some really interesting things in regard to,

36:49 yeah, the symbiote industry, not necessarily all protein, but, you know, there's some really novel things happening in regard to food production, and if cactus plays a role in, you know, being

37:01 a fermentable sugar to make those things possible, that's where we're excited to play a role, obviously, on the bioenergy side of things, but then also on the water remediation, so we can use the

37:13 cactus as a bio coagulant or flocculant for downstream,

37:20 so if you've got, wait, let's say like dairy effluent, right, so you've got like urine and feces in in a water stream, we can actually use products that. coagulate things, so like bring things

37:34 together or basically cause it to separate and can pull off the clean source. And so this like kind of like grabs it, it kind of sinks and then the clean water, cleanish water kind of continues.

37:44 Yeah, exactly. And when we pair this with like protein scrubbing technology, it's very effective, right? So I think just, I love that combination of things. I'm really passionate. I think

37:55 those are very relevant issues that are also incontentious, right? In this era, but I think they sit at the heart of like the US strategic positioning right now to be food independent, to ensure

38:12 energy sovereignty. And

38:16 I think we all agree on clean water. So I think it's just a perfect time for that. In Texas in particular, I think it's really interesting that we have these land grant universities as well. So we

38:27 have the University of Texas I believe. it was at the time when Texas was formed as a republic, they have 21 million acres of land, right? And you've got, and I believe now AM has a third of that.

38:40 So they have two thirds of that, AM has one third. And of course, those have been, you know, I don't want, I'm not saying exploited, but you know, the mineral rights has been a huge piece of

38:52 what they've chosen to do with that and to monetize the land and continue with that endowment. But there are huge swathes of land, particularly in Texas where almost nothing will grow, right? So I

39:03 think this is a massive opportunity. I think when we look at also like our reliance on the corn belt, you know, looking at these crops that are coming from the corn belt, it's an opportunity to do

39:17 things that are more local and rely, basically leverage the assets that we have locally. And a lot of these projects simply won't work when the transport aspect of things requires reliance on. such

39:31 a far distance. So those are just a couple of things. I think it's the right time.

39:37 Noticing, maybe because we're buying Closian for the first time in a while, we're seeing a lot of alternative plant fibers now as an alternative to polyester. It could also just be the demographic

39:47 of buyer we are. But

39:52 it's amazing to me how many proteins are materials that are being developed where instead of being a traditional petroleum product, it is all processed fibers. I assume, I don't know what's driving

40:06 that. I don't know if you're familiar with these trends. Is it consumers? Is it technology? I think it's both. I think it is. I think that

40:16 I think people are more aware of things like microplastics and things than they ever have been And I think a lot of the people in the and advocacy climate

40:28 doing the heavy lift of this work. I've done a lot of work to look at the psychology of the end consumer. And I'm just gonna speak early, Frank. I think it has to matter to people individually. I

40:39 don't think that we have the altruists that we thought we did to move these things forward. And so there has to be a way to make this, get

40:51 the momentum that we need for this from a consumer perspective And so I think that's been actually strategically genius in getting consumers to care about this and being more aware. So it's less

41:02 about the overall impact on the environment, but it's like, do you want your kids eating microplastic? Do you want microplastic showing up in your laundry as these things degrade, right? So

41:10 there's a lot of emphasis there. But I think it's also paired with this Sin bio revolution and you know what we're.

41:25 Understanding is possible with mycelium and algae and hemp and, you know, a lot of these products. Yeah, so for me personally, I always feel better when I buy cotton or,

41:37 you know, natural fibers. I actually, that's the first thing I look at is the tag. And if I see it's just all polyester, I just reject that 'cause I don't. That's just not aligned with my, what

41:48 I want from my body or my kids or whatever. So I think, yeah, it's definitely ingrained in the consumer psychology, but one of the things that's kind of amazing to me is it's also high performance

41:60 kind of materials now. So we are, 'cause we're going on this big hike, we had to go off and find like sweat wicking material and I was like, do plant fibers do this? The answer is yes. Some

42:11 people have developed kind of these, I don't know if they replicate or they're superior or what, but it's amazing to me kind of the command of chemistry where we are taking this like organic source

42:23 It's not exactly the same as a polyester. It's different, has different properties. In some cases, it's preferred. And it's amazing to me that we either didn't know before or just didn't have the

42:33 tools to make it at scale, but it seems like there's this big trend of finding these kind of complex proteins, but we're harvesting them and turning them into these advanced fibers. Yeah, no, I

42:44 love it too, I'm really excited, but I think it's also similar to the alt protein conversation So there's a lot of things that like at face value, it looks great and you love the idea of it, but

42:56 then you look at, well, okay, well, what did it take to get to this point, what's actually in here, right? And so you look at like all these P proteins and, you know, all of the soy and

43:06 different things. It's like, okay, but in my opinion, it's like, well, that actually defeats the purpose of what we were trying to achieve here because it's ultra, ultra processed, right?

43:15 Awesome, yeah. So I think, yeah, when we look at this, It's okay, great, this natural fiber, but what did it take to get to that point? from like the wearability and your, I don't know,

43:26 your relationship with the fabric, but also from the industrial side of things too, right? To be clear, I'm someone who used to get all my clothes from free t-shirts in college. So I'm slowly,

43:38 finally working through that inventory.

43:42 I talked a little bit about, you know how,

43:47 like, and we've spoken about this before how, you know, when we talk about energy tech, we talk a lot of, especially when it comes to, like, fundraising, what investors are looking for,

43:56 they're looking for, like, heart tech, and how we, to some extent, undervalue, nature-based solutions and listening to your conversation, I'm just, like, again, just fascinated by what

44:07 nature is able to do and, like, taking advantage of that to help us solve the big problems that we have, right? Yeah, talk to us about that. Yeah, so I think it's, there's a lot of things like

44:19 there's a known phenomenon called like nature blindness or something right so when we in any given environment you know we're just completely oblivious of all of the you know the plants and the botany

44:30 and things we just we exist in these environments and are not really aware of it right and I think we have a long history of of extracting things and disrupting ecosystems and things like that and I'm

44:43 not getting on like a you know a high horse or anything but I think we can all agree that like like mother nature just keeps giving and giving and giving and so when we certain magic to the fact that

44:56 it all just kind of works yeah I mean yeah right um and so yeah I think when we look at like nature-based capital nature capital

45:07 we've had a long history of not really having to place value on that or incorporate that into you know our balance sheets or things like that right and so that the psychology follows that where, you

45:21 know, the things that we've traditionally focused on in oil and gas or energy, it's just, you know, that tech is really valuable or that process is really valuable, that chemistry is really

45:31 valuable. And when we, and I think even if I'm honest, when we compare things like direct air capture versus, you know, when we're looking at the sequestration that's possible in that way versus,

45:44 you know, biologic sequestration that we don't have to do anything, I don't have to engineer or do anything to the plant, I, you know, when we contrast these types of things with solar, I don't

45:55 need cement pads, I don't need photovoltaic cells, I, and actually from the decommissioning side, it's also very simple, like what happens at that point, right? So I think it's just, yeah,

46:07 it's almost like, well, yeah, it's always been that way or we've always relied on that and so we don't place an inherent value on that. And I guess a lot of that has to do with because you can't

46:16 make money. the same way that you can out of like photovoltaic cells, or like the heart tech, or like DAC, or you can't make pitch decks and like say, hey, this is going to be the revenue the

46:27 same way, then like just doing sequestration, the natural way, which is like planting more trees. Well, yeah. And I think it's like this also this,

46:38 I don't know, this mentality, like, oh, you're just a farmer, right? Like, oh, what's exciting about that? Like, where's the tech? Where's the innovation, you know, right? Yeah. So,

46:48 yeah. Well, you know, I think part of the challenge is, and this is getting very much into like technology strategy, you know, things are valuable and they're scarce, right? And the kind of

46:58 the reality of the world around us is it's abundant. There's a lot of the nature around us.

47:04 And we were starting to see parts of that where people are waking up and going, oh, wait, no, we don't have water, right? Water is underpriced. Yeah, very much so, and

47:12 Right? Oh my gosh, so, like British Columbia, there was this massive deal with Nestle. They basically, like, Gate, do you know about this? Please tell us. Well, I mean, it was just

47:23 basically giving it away for. I'm sure this is a Nestle probably, yeah. Yeah, there's not an inherent value place there, and there's some exceptionally exploitative stuff that goes on in that

47:37 domain. But yeah, you know, and I think. It wasn't valued, right? And so I think the issue is, and we were over visiting a steel company the other day, and this is kind of a challenge where

47:49 they view steel as a commodity, and therefore it's hard to get pricing, and it's because it's everywhere. Every country makes it, and so therefore is oversupplied. And so, when you go back to,

48:01 you know, why is silicon, for example, value? It's because it's a limited resource in terms of the ability to make that process. And so, I'm not surprised that people don't value things feels

48:12 like it's abundant, it's just the nature of capitalism. I don't know. That's what it is. And I think that's what we're talking about is like, you know, there's this guy, John Fullerton, he

48:23 talks about regenerative economy. It's like, how do you actually include nature as part of the economy? So you could like give it some value, right? And I don't know enough about it to go into

48:32 the detail, but I really find that interesting. What I'm arguing is you almost have to create scarcity, which is like not big as at odds with nature If you want to create value, you have to create

48:43 scarcity. Yeah, in the current system. But if you adapt to a different system where you actually take how we're impacting the environment. Oh, I don't think you can change people, man. But

48:51 that's a full

48:54 of topical difference. No, yeah. Not to get into. I think we've got it that I believe that we can change the world. I don't know. But maybe not in our lifetime, but we're working towards that.

49:02 No, but there's, I mean, there's also some really interesting things with like biopiracy, right? So you look at going in to know, certain environments and just taking rare plants, right? Like,

49:15 where do, where do all these plants come from that we shot for at Home Depot or these beautiful orchids or things like that? Most consumers have no idea what it took to get that, right? And so

49:28 yeah, there's, there's almost like a black market of these types of things and there is scarcity, but people are so out of touch with the ethics of how these things come to be. I think, you know,

49:39 so we do have some issues there as well. And again, that goes back to

49:44 being in relationship with indigenous communities and stewardship and, you know, understanding the ecology of those types of things, right? And then you've also made a conscious decision that you

49:56 are not going to take venture capital for your business. So talk to us about that. Yeah, so I would say like at this time. So I, yeah, I'm really passionate about bootstrapping the business.

50:07 It's not been easy. I know it's, Yeah, it's a contentious position to say I'm not fundraising and I don't see that in the foreseeable future.

50:17 But yeah, it's really important to me. I've met a lot of founders that have been funded and

50:25 that journey's been incredibly difficult for them. It's fundamentally changed both their roles and the trajectory of their business. And we always hear about the upside of that. Like, oh, this is

50:37 gonna fundamentally change the trajectory in a positive way, but I know enough people that have really struggled with that. And I take that seriously. So I, you know, just in building this, I

50:50 think for me, I want the opportunity to build value, right? So, you know, starting from nothing, literally starting with a field of sand and, you know, 4, 000 cactus, I think it's, well,

51:04 where is the value there? right? And, and so as you go on this journey and, and people start to see, oh, this is the strategy. This is what she's doing. This is what she's building. And this

51:14 is the way that she's valorizing this, this product. Oh, like that. It's like a pie, right? Like, oh, that smells good. What are you cooking? Like, what do you got going on there? But if

51:26 it's not fully baked, then, you know, you take a hit on the valuation or, you know, you have people that come in and get a great deal for that, right? And so I'm, yeah, I'm just really

51:38 committed to taking the time to build value. I think what's so fascinating, you know, my husband, because we're bootstrapping this, he's like, essentially my investor, right? Like, you know,

51:51 he figures that, he sees himself that way, which I don't blame him. Obviously, this is like, had a huge impact on our personal finances and the risk that we take on as a family Um, But I think

52:03 it drives him crazy because he's been in corporate for, you know, 16 years and he's got all these resources and these ways of these communities of practice and these ways and he's like, well,

52:14 where is the information on this? And I'll tell him. And he's like, but where is it written down? And it's like, but for who? Like, who am I writing it down for? Right? But it kills him.

52:22 He's like, you know, it's, it feels like an indicator to him that it's disorganized or it's not there. And it's like, but you, you just don't understand how this works Right. What also drives

52:32 him crazy is the speed at which things change, right? So yesterday, this is the path that you're on and, and today, like, what is this? And I was like, that's what I'm trying to tell you is

52:44 that this is moving so rapidly and things are right. It's just not even worth talking about. And so it's not an unwillingness to talk about these things. But it's like, it's just a, it's really

52:54 tough to explain startup life, start up mentality, start up resilience, right? The exhaustion of like, Okay, this is the path that I thought I was on yesterday, and this is the path that I'm on

53:06 today. And every path is the mini-experiment, right? And then based on the results of that experiment, you choose what your next step is looking to be. Exactly, and so I don't think it makes

53:14 sense to have anybody involved at this time while I'm figuring it out. And maybe it's a sensitivity to criticism or something. But I know that this is part of the journey. Like I know that it's

53:27 okay to not have everything figured out I'm a huge fan of like fake it till you make it type thing, right? And that served me very well in my career, right? And that's again, like one of my

53:39 superpowers is I can take a topic and I can, because of the way my brain works and my obsession with data and patterns and information and things like that, I can emerge from that with a very solid

53:52 understanding of it in a short amount of time Um, So that is something that has been fundamental to my success in like in my career and as a founder. But yeah, I just don't think that that jives

54:07 well with the formula, like how VCs see you, the information that they demand, the way that they wanna structure these relationships, it feels messy and it feels perceived as, you know, not

54:22 ready or things like that. So I'm just, I'm really comfortable figuring that out And I think the other thing is that I don't aspire to be a unicorn. Like I'm, I'm a mom of two kids. I have a nine

54:33 year old and a seven year old. I'm really active in their lives. And you know, it's like we've done, we've gone through so much with kids. It's like, I don't want to not be a part of that. I'm

54:44 really involved in my community. And so for me, it's just about like gas in the tank. Like how much do you have leftover? And I think being a unicorn does not align with that. but I'm really, I

54:56 still think that you can build really successful sustainable businesses and sustainable in regard to longevity and the ability to still be here, you know, in 10, 20, 50 years, right? So that

55:10 those, all of those things are just kind of forming my perspective on that. But it's not a, like, I never would. It's just that at this point in time. At this point, and I think it's good to be

55:20 clear on that and not waste your time on that. When you know you're too early or you know you're not gonna be able to align with their values at this stage, right? Yeah, I would not want to

55:29 challenge a little bit because when we look at the empirical data on investment, right, we know a disproportionate amount goes into women-led businesses. And one of the reasons that's used is kind

55:44 of what you're describing to us is female CEOs tend to want to wait longer. They want to prove more value And some of that is a question, is that a societal pressure? or is that a choice that's

55:56 just like the difference in how men and women think? 'Cause I will tell you, I'll sell anything forever, build it. Yeah. Like that is like my personality. No, but I am like that too. And so,

56:05 like what's,

56:08 I don't know how to ask this question is like, are you kind of behaving like a statistic or is there something deliberate here because you're more mature as an entrepreneur now? Like, I guess I

56:17 don't know how you - I think it's a combination of both, right? So you look at, you know what we know about even job applications, right? We won't, like, women do not apply for things unless we

56:26 feel - You hit every box. Yeah, right? Yeah. And oh, whereas guys, this is a different story. And I think, you know, and it gets into things like Tam, Sam, and Psalm, right? Like, I

56:36 despise being asked about Tam because to me, it's like blue skies and rainbows. Like, if you want, for me, the value I see in that is a checkbox that like, okay, this market is big enough to

56:48 make it worth our while or demonstrate that But like, it's just such a waste of our time to talk about time.

56:56 So this, this is the female perspective too. Like if I'm going to give data like that, I want it to be accurate. I want it to be credible, right? And whereas, you know, I think you see a lot

57:06 of people that are just like, oh yeah, you know. That's the biggest market world. So I think there's so many layers of where the female psychology comes in and that. But then yeah, there's also

57:17 a piece of that that I, you know, I've sat with different VCs and investors and you

57:25 know, other people within the ecosystem and it always blows my mind.

57:30 I don't know, there's just a condescension within that almost like you should be so lucky to be talking to us about this, but they have, no, they're not experts at all. Right? So it's also very

57:42 - It's because they have the money, right? Yeah, but that puts them in a position of power. It's the power dynamic, right? And it's like, but this is - But you got something valuable. You have

57:48 your business. You gotta show up, they're saying, look, I got the most valuable thing coming in you should be lucky to be able to participate. So there's a little bit of putting yourself in a

57:57 position of under power. Yeah. I guess they money. But we're subject to their demands. We're subjects to the questions that they asked, how they view our business, all of the things. It's like,

58:06 but you're not an expert in this space. So a lot of time, and what I've seen happen time and time again is founders and entrepreneurs coming out of conversations with investors and VC and thinking,

58:22 wow, that I knocked that out of the park. I had this amazing conversation. They seemed very receptive to it, and then they never hear back again. And then you see people that actually get

58:33 involved in VCs, and

58:37 they might be an entrepreneur in residence or something like that, and they see the flip side of that where it's like, they sat in on that

58:46 pitch and they watch people say, oh, great, love what you're doing and then the founder leaves the room. No fucking, no fucking way, right?

58:56 So that I'm making a conscious choice not to use my time to put toward that, right? I think it's fair to also see like there's a culture in the venture capital industry that is kind of a tech bro

59:11 type of culture that does exist right,? And it does impact women wanting to go in front of them. And you know, there was a LinkedIn post by this guy saying, yeah, women only get 2 of the funding

59:20 and I've seen like this many women pitch and this many men pitch. And you know, women often tend to kind of undersell themselves and men tend to oversell themselves. And he was kind of saying, I

59:30 would advise women to pitch more than like men in not exactly in those ways, but saying like, you know, just show up with more confidence the way the men are doing. And I was like, why are you

59:40 asking us to change? Like, why don't you ask the men to like, present the real numbers instead of always over exaggerating their numbers, because there's something definitely wrong with that too.

59:50 On the flip side, when women do present aggressive numbers, there's this woman who sold a company to JP Morgan recently, and she got in a lot of trouble, and then those obviously, it's not a

1:00:01 solution to say over pitch, because the ones who get punished are also not dudes Yeah, exactly, yeah. So you got something there, it's just, the system is kind of dynamically stable with this

1:00:14 one model that just kind of works for people, right? And they say like there was Columbia who did this research that the way, also the questions that they ask women are also very different.

1:00:21 Totally different. So they view it as risk rather than opportunity. Yeah, exactly. So they will be like, oh, have you looked at these challenges? Whereas for men, it would be more like, show

1:00:30 me your ambition, like show me your vision. But women are not asked that question, which they kind of allow them to kind of expand on their plan and how they're going to make this into a big

1:00:39 business. Yeah. And this, I think this actually falls into the entrepreneurial leadership side of things too. I spent a good portion of my career trying to lead a man in oil and gas. So during

1:00:54 summer, I was a summer student at a coal mine in British Columbia, and I was determined to. Sorry,

1:01:05 I worked as a summer student in a coal mine in British Columbia and I was determined to just be that, almost like a tomboy or somebody that wasn't offended by crude jokes or could make jokes,

1:01:19 similar things, to be able to exist in this environment where there's like 1, 100 men and 75 women. And some really awful things happened in that environment. I probably won't get into that stuff,

1:01:32 but

1:01:34 my career in oil and gas, same thing, leading like a man, not. terrified at the thought of showing any emotion or crying or, you know, anything, even when awful things happened. Um, and I

1:01:49 don't, I don't, I think maybe it was motherhood, like after I had kids, I, I just stopped trying to do that. I stopped trying to be that. I remember so clearly being on a conference call. When

1:02:01 I lived in London, I was breastfeeding my son below camera. Um, I was not in a place that I should have been like, you know, on a call, but I was terrified that they would let me go or that I

1:02:12 would be viewed as weak or whatever. Um, and, and then I contrast that with like after I made this mental shift, I started making a conscious choice to tell people what I was doing, right? So

1:02:26 when I was a chief operating officer at the, at, um, intertech, I made a point to say, yeah, I'm taking the afternoon off because I'm doing, or, you know, I'm leaving early from work because

1:02:37 I'm going to my daughter's soccer game, right? So I wanted to model that. You don't have to hide that part of you or whatever, right? So I think that, yeah, there's so many aspects to that of

1:02:47 us trying to fit into these systems, trying to be that way, both as leaders and in our approach to fundraising these types of things, right? Yeah, in many ways, your value is not how often

1:03:00 you're on the call, right? It's all the other experience you're bringing to the table. Yeah. So unfortunately, we've got like five minutes Yeah, but so I want you to just say a few things about

1:03:11 or just kind of in a few sentences about the loop institute before we end and then how people can get in touch with you for loop byproducts and the loop institute. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I

1:03:21 totally forgot that we were talking about that. Yeah, so I recently founded a nonprofit that sits alongside loop byproducts. It's called the loop institute. So it's focused on STEM education and

1:03:33 so taking these really complex stem. topics and concepts and making them make sense to eight to 12 year olds. And this is like, this is where we're starting. So we have STEM camps. And I guess it

1:03:47 also came from the observation that it's certainly in the Houston area, a lot of focuses on coding and robotics when we look at STEM. And so I wanted to do something that was kind of in celebration

1:03:58 of the work that we do at Loop Bioproducts, the technology when we look at CinBio, when we look at biochemistry and biotech. And so yeah, it's been a passion project. I think it's also a very

1:04:11 dark time in the world. And getting back to a place to just nerd out on this stuff and interact with kids has been amazing. So we, yeah, we have one. And this is actually also where it's come

1:04:23 full circle. We have a week dedicated to medicine. So it's called medical minds. And we focus on genetic engineering, we focus on, you know, all types of things, but I actually have a

1:04:37 neuroscience day. So out of the week, it's an entire day dedicated to neuroscience. And so that's brought me back to that passion that I had, you know, that I, that still remains from, from my

1:04:49 academic career. And it's been such a joy to create it. So it's yeah, it's really interesting, the interlock between all of these pieces. But I think what's also been really interesting about

1:04:59 this journey is I, I guess I thought that my motivation for it was, you know, I've done a lot of this work in schools, a lot of volunteer STEM advocacy. And thought it was just, well, I've

1:05:09 always been really committed to that or passionate about that. But I also started to realize that I'm building this for what I would have needed at that time. Like I had a, you know, pretty rocky

1:05:21 upbringing. And I think actually STEM saved, saved me in a lot of ways. So I'm, I'm, it's, that's been an interesting realization on this journey that oh my gosh this is actually much more

1:05:32 personal than I realized. So yeah, just creating a safe place for people and that sense of like human agency that you don't need to be defined by your circumstances. There are ways that you can

1:05:45 overcome that and helping people understand that these STEM careers and even the academic pathways aren't as far away or out of reach as they think they are. And how can they find out more about?

1:06:00 Yeah, so I think just our website, so loopbioproductscom. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well, so that's always a great way to reach out. Awesome. Yeah, is that what you had in mind? Yeah,

1:06:12 yeah, it was good one, yeah. Thanks for being here with us. Yeah, no, thanks for the interesting chat. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's show. If you like the show, share

1:06:20 it with a friend or give us a review on your podcast platform. Lastly, if you have an entrepreneur in Houston that you'd like to hear more about, let us know and we'll try to bring them in See you

1:06:29 next week on Energy Tech startups.