Energy Tech Startups

0:00 Welcome back to the show. We're in the studio here today with Jason, who's back from his long vacation.

0:09 And today we have Ben Zare with us, who is the co-founder of Reciprocal,

0:18 which is a venture studio building nature-based climate startups in Latin America and the Caribbean. Welcome. Nada, thank you. Jason, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited

0:28 Yeah. So tell us, start off by telling us a little bit about when did you start Reciprocal, what are you guys about, and why that focus in Latin America and the Caribbean's? For sure. Reciprocal

0:43 is actually a fairly young organization. It's been around for a little over a year, around 15 months on paper, but it's something that's been part of, it's It's been in the works for three years,

0:56 but prior to reciprocal. I was at Stanford prior to Stanford. I was running a couple of businesses in India. And after being deep in one specific business for five years, I came out of that

1:10 wanting to look more broadly at issues that I cared about, climate included, as a broad topic, but within that, you know, working lands or the blue economy. Themes that I was interested in me

1:19 but I didn't get an opportunity to work on. And so the venture studio model was a way of having selfishly my fingers and all these different things. And also being able to go deep and help other

1:28 people succeed. So while I was at Stanford, you know, that was something I had been thinking about for a few years but while I was at Stanford, I met my now co-founder, Daniela Hartle. And we

1:39 kicked around this idea of a studio focused on Latin America given all the things that I think are really cool about the region. And we decided to get started. So we kind of worked on the idea. We

1:50 being at Stanford, we spoke to a lot of people who knew a lot about the ventures ecosystem and how that looks in the context of a studio and especially in the emerging market context. and we decided

1:59 to launch Reciprocal after, fortuitously, SF Climate Week last year. Actually, so, cool. Yeah, and about Reciprocal, right? So the venture studio model, for those who don't know, for those

2:12 at home, it's somewhere between an accelerator in VC, a little bit of both, but we build, support, and invest in nature tech, climate tech companies in Latin America and the Caribbean. And what

2:25 that means is that as a studio, we are co-founding businesses with entrepreneurs who know about their specific realm of technical expertise or they're very familiar with the problem. And so we do

2:37 research ahead of time, we have a concept note or a thesis, and then we work with the entrepreneur to turn that into reality. We take it one year in residency for the entrepreneur and take them all

2:46 the way through to a funding event of some kind. That's the building part. As an ecosystem support organization, we also run programming for entrepreneurs We connect people, we try to be a bridge

2:58 between. global north and the region. And the invest bucket is kind of flexible. As part of the build process, we invest generally up to 350k in kind and in cash. And we also facilitate

3:12 investments for companies that are either in our portfolio, or we work with them through our other programming. And that can be through an SPV year through making the connections. How much does

3:19 350k get you? Quite a lot. Okay. Yeah. Because in in Letam, it really depends on the country that you're working in and the space, but 350k is enough to get you through the pre-seed stage all

3:30 the way to seed round. It depends on how complicated the thing you're working on is we're our first company actually. We really like making things hard for ourselves. It's a biorefinery of seaweed

3:41 in southern Chile, and that takes a very long time to develop. It's at TRL4 now. Getting that further along is going to take a bit more investment. So for that, we have to leverage external

3:50 capital, non-deluded funding, research grants and things like that from the country level or DFI's and other sources. Is that like, I guess, capital efficiency of having a small - being able to

4:01 use that 350 and really stretch it, is that because labor is lower cost in that part of the world? Or tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, 350K. I mean, so my previous experience is in India,

4:14 right? And some dynamics are similar. The labor cost tends to be lower. Again, Chile is not that cheap, but Columbia, much more affordable We can get really skilled people for much, much less.

4:28 That really stretches the money. So, for example, I could probably keep a basic team going in Chile or Columbia, 15K from four to five months, right? It shouldn't be an issue for me to keep the

4:39 lights on. So it's helpful, but also the capital available locally is not. It scales, right? It costs a lower capital available for that kind of work early on is also pretty low. The risk

4:52 appetite is pretty low That's part of our role as a studio is to try to - facilitate the flow of capital from other parts of the world where there's more of a risk appetite and more willingness to put

5:00 money in upfront to develop these things. And it's cost-efficient. So where are you getting the 350K from? That's a great question. So as a 15-month-old venture studio. So I'll rewind a little

5:14 bit. So venture studios in general tend to have

5:18 unique ways of approaching their funding situation. Often a studio will have an exited founder who's one of the co-founders and they just have cash that they're willing to burn for a couple of years

5:29 until they can raise a fund on the side. So we do not have that. So we have some of our own capital. So that's the initial money that we have, but we've had to get creative about how we access

5:42 funds for ecosystem building from development banks, from philanthropies and also funding through the companies that we're building because then given how much resources generally available for

5:54 specific climate solutions. We can go to different funding sources and keep our lights on while assisting the entrepreneur to continue building, right? So that's one bucket. And the other is what

6:06 I mentioned about the programming. So there are all kinds of technical assistance, investment readiness, accelerator type programming opportunities out there that we can co-build with impact funds,

6:16 for example, or even government agencies. And that helps us build our team. And you're involved in, tell us about some of the programs you're involved in right now. Yeah, something really that

6:28 is top of mind for me that I've been working on. And the reason I had to delay the recording of this by a month is I was just in the Amazon for a couple of weeks, and. We're not jealous by that,

6:38 by the way. At all points is

6:42 you're wrong. Would recommend it. Yeah. Yeah, I'll get into that a little bit more, but the impetus for that is a fellowship that I recently applied to and got, it's an experiential learning

6:53 process,

6:56 a group of impact funds in Columbia, organized this program, and I've been working with an impact fund based out of Costa Rica, and they have kind of a whole regional and global presence. Together,

7:07 we're going to start a program soon, which is an Amazonian bioeconomy venture platform. So we're going to take 10 companies, 10 startups that are at the prototype stage from the region. So the

7:19 bioregion broadly defines every country that's touched by the Amazon basin and take them from prototype to a fundraising event. And the great thing about partnering with an impact fund is that they

7:29 have that capital available. So at the very least, there'll be, you know, 100k, 150k that goes towards the further development of that. And that allows us to bring in other, other funders as

7:39 well. So that's the Amazonia, B1, plus, you know, the name of the program right now. But that's, we're aiming to have something to show at COP30 in Brazil, which is a really important cop for

7:49 the region. And so that's kind of of one

7:53 of our milestones, and we think about our - plan for that program. So the Amazon trip was a way to kind of get a sense of the experiential learning that we want to be part of that program because

8:02 not we don't want it to be just another accelerator that you know holds on to some equity, gives you some cash, connects you to five people and kind of sends you off in a cohort, very involved and

8:14 experiential learning is a really important part of it, spending a couple weeks in a mix of like an indigenous community or a city in the Amazon, the urban Amazon or going to an agroforestry

8:27 facility or processing facility, seeing deforestation right at the frontier. I think those are really important experiences for entrepreneurs to have to really contextualize the work they're doing

8:37 and I think it's essential to build something that's going to succeed in a local context. And as part of that, like when you are creating that context is about creating context around customers or

8:49 just I guess the

8:52 government factors or environmental factors, like what is the context you're hoping they imbibe? Yeah, great question. And some of these things you can read about them. You can understand that

9:03 there are different regulations or layers of governance that exist within the Amazonian bioregion, let alone the political boundaries, but even at the local level. One thing that wasn't clear to me

9:14 as when I first arrived is the layer of indigenous governance that exists in much of the Amazon where communities of indigenous peoples that have been

9:24 there for a very long time, they follow a different process, right? They're very consensus-based. Things take time. They don't necessarily think about things in terms of economic return, right?

9:36 What matters for them is continuity. It's almost like, I don't know if you see the movie Arrival, but they communicate with like, yeah. So time has kind of been an ongoing process So it's a

9:48 difficult thing to communicate to an investor.

9:52 You know, they don't really see this as a one-year project. This is kind of like a perpetuity project. And you have to approach it in that way. And if you try to rush the process, you're not

9:60 going to be able to implement your solution with that community. That's just the governance layer. The concept of IRR does not compute if you don't have time. I mean, it's not about money. Yeah.

10:09 In a lot of cases. So you have to think about the, yeah, what the communities care about, right? And it's not money because they barely interact with the cash economy. How did I'm just curious

10:20 as a tangent? Like, how do you talk about value, I guess, in that context? Because in some ways, like in a capitalist system, we've reduced the value, you know, value to a commodity of a

10:31 dollar, right? And so, and I'll commonly say to our entrepreneurs, like the true value of something is what people will pay for it, right? And that's the thing we always have to remember. But

10:42 then when you are working with a community that doesn't necessarily want to think in dollars or reals or whatever the currency is, you still need to. You're still, the point of innovation is to

10:51 deploy something that is valuable. Um, so how do you, how do you have to shift the thinking in that situation? Right. So I'm just like moving one level of abstraction higher, right? The, the

11:02 dollar is a proxy for value. Yeah. Right. And so you have to go to the value, which is they're able to continue. Um, the practices they've been doing for 100 years, 200 years. Like food is

11:14 there, water is clean, right? They're not facing external pressures, like land grabbing from different interests, especially mining, Amazon is a big issue and it pollutes water and clean water

11:26 supply is crucial for all these communities. And they have their ways of ensuring that they have it. So if whatever solution you are implementing, let's say I deploy something that either helps the

11:37 government find illegal mining operations or I'm able to clean up a waste stream from that mining operation And that is something the community can get behind so they will support that, right? The

11:47 value proposition is super clear. is really, it still comes down to that, but they really need to understand the value proposition can't be, it saves you money. It needs to be the thing you

11:57 actually get, which is the clean water, the food, stability. Yeah, and money can be a part of it, but it needs to be, again, attached to, like, okay, with that money now,

12:08 we can buy that one thing that'll help us continue doing what we're doing, which is the thing we actually care about, right? It's a, and there are people who would explain this much more

12:16 eloquently than me, who I was spending time with there, but it's about maintaining that continuity, thinking about three generations hence, right? Will they be able to live the same life that I

12:25 do? So you're thinking of including then indigenous peoples in that area as part of

12:34 the program? Yes, that's the second differentiator, one in the experiential part, which I mentioned. And the second is that we want to include non-traditional founders in our, as part of the mix

12:46 So often, you know, there are. self-organized cooperatives, there are other community level organizations that are doing good work and they're trying to implement different kinds of production

12:55 practices or, you know, be representatives for the community and so we wanna enable that as well. They would be part of the program, which would be, it's a challenge. Yeah, I mean, challenge,

13:05 but also, you know, an opportunity, especially thinking about like value, right? And then them better being able to understand that if they were gonna innovate here in the Amazon, like what

13:16 would be beneficial for them also and to the rest of the world? Exactly, and I think it's a two-way street when it comes to learning, right? The entrepreneur in Bogota, who is more familiar with

13:28 technology and software or whichever specific niche they may know a lot about, they don't necessarily know about the context, even though they live in the same country, they don't know what it's

13:38 like in Amazonas. So they go

13:40 there and they learn. However, these cooperatives or organizations that work at the community level, they may not be aware of all the tools available for them to continue or improve what they're

13:47 doing right. Yeah. To make their lives better too. But then also for us to not be very extractive either. And I think that's the whole point. On their own terms, right? How do you, so just to

14:00 bring this back a little bit, so this is an energy tech start-ups. I get the question all the time, how does nature-based solutions relate to energy and climate? I know what the answer is, I

14:11 think, but I'm curious if you have a perspective on it. Yeah

14:17 It's like you said, right, Jason, every story, every climate story is an energy story. Yeah. But I think that, yeah, the energy transition, for example, is not just about switching to

14:25 renewables. It's about re-imagining what our relationship is to our resources and to the environment. And so, for example, the biorefinery that I mentioned is focused on using biomass, which is

14:40 embodied energy, to produce products which substitute petrochemical-derived products, right? So that is connected to the energy ecosystem in multiple ways. Another company we're working on right

14:50 now is a biochar startup also in Chile. So that company will take wildfire mitigation steps and turn that into, so the biomass that's in the forest after you're trying to reduce the fuel load from

15:01 the forest. That biomass then becomes a potential for a carbon sink. And biochar itself, the production is paralysis. It's a heavy industry process. And often it involves a production of energy,

15:15 which people then reuse as part of the process that they use for their facilities. So co-location with different types of productive facilities are part of the puzzle. So I think that they're very

15:26 interconnected. And energy is not just electricity. It's carbon. It's

15:33 the system level thinking, right? Because every living system runs on energy. Yeah. It's calories or kilowatt hours, right, at the end of the day. That's a better term. Yeah. Yeah and then on

15:46 that topic. What made you decide to focus on nature-based solutions versus heart tech, which is very popular amongst investors at least. I think nature-based is still hard, but for whatever reason,

16:02 they kind of live in different buckets and people's minds.

16:05 Yeah, nature-based people think about, people think about planting trees and heart tech, people think about building factories. But

16:13 it's not that simple The reason we wanted to focus on nature-based is that people weren't focusing on it first. And Latin America is a region. If you look at the emissions of the region as a whole,

16:25 it's just ever so slightly. Burning fossil fuels is number two on the emissions front. If you look about contribution, deforestation land use change is number one. You think about the cattle herds

16:36 of Argentina and Chile or so enormous, right? They drive, that drives land use change deforestation, right? It creates the problem that we have, but it's also a huge opportunity. to reimagine

16:48 the way that the land is used in those areas. And that's, it's study after study, you see that that is the number one low hanging fruit as far as CDR. So, and I mean, personally, of course,

17:02 I'm biased towards more natural systems and I studied agriculture. It's something that I care a lot about my co-founders also. I'm more inclined to those spaces, but Latin America as a region that

17:12 has a unique angle and that nature-based is an especially powerful mechanism. From an

17:20 adaptation and mitigation perspective, 'cause adaptation is probably where people should be focusing more of their energy in the region. Mitigation, of course, is important, but given

17:32 the highly, rapidly urbanizing population of the region, it's an opportunity to build cities that are more resilient and given the income levels of the region, it's an opportunity to think about

17:41 the impacts of climate which are already happening And we'll continue to happen and how we can build around that. Adaptation piece, I think, is crucial in the region. So nature-based approaches to

17:51 that, thinking more holistically about how to use natural systems to adapt is one of the reasons that we found it appealing to go more towards the nature-based route. Do you find, like, is it very

18:03 clear when you build a factory, it's gonna produce widgets, right? And you know how to sell those to make money. Like, does nature-based solutions struggle with monetization? Or am I like, okay,

18:13 tell us about what the struggles are.

18:17 Well, the fundamental issue is that we don't place value, we haven't traditionally placed value on the services natural systems provide us. And people are trying to now do that in different ways.

18:28 But

18:30 carbon is carbon, but our environmental issues are multifaceted and carbon is just one crisis, right? Even climate is just one crisis. So the challenge there fundamentally in our economy today is

18:40 that we don't value clean air, clean water, and the provision of pollination services or the. the possibility that we'll discover a new pharmaceutical in the Amazon. By our diversity

18:54 as having value is something that people are working on now, defining which we'll see how that goes. But yeah, that's the fundamental challenge. So the way people approach nature tech is, okay,

19:07 I'm going to maybe use a satellite to measure to find places where I can do XYZ intervention. And that's, I'll monetize that. I can collect the data and I can interpret the data and provide that to

19:16 people who are doing the work. It's one approach. Others are trying to plug in natural systems to the market economy in some way. So in the Amazon, I saw a lot of people trying to create

19:28 commercializable products out of not a site, right? Because a site is number one, it's been, you know, you can see the transformation of the forest into like an SIE forest where you have market

19:39 connectivity. I see that, I tried

19:43 a lot of things I never tried. before. A lot of fruits that I had never heard of, and some of them were delicious. It's like the monoculture of SAI is a problem, because it reduces biodiversity

19:52 is the challenge. Exactly. So managing that perverse incentive, when you're trying to popularize something that has been traditionally armed as part of a polyculture, and you're moving towards a

20:03 monoculture, there are some places where SAI is a monoculture, but places I visited anyway, I mean, my tiny, tiny view of the Amazon, I could see the difference between one part in Colombia,

20:13 which was not super connected to markets, you see one SAI in 50 trees, right? On the other side, in Beleng, in Brazil, you see maybe 20 out of 100 RSI trees. So you just kind of see like that

20:28 changing in an environment where there are 100 varieties of trees and bushes and other climbing vines and things. That's a big change One of the

20:39 weird challenges of our industrialization and our supermarket. ecosystem, right? This goes back to like local food, right? Is like the rise of the monocultures is because like we're support

20:51 sourcing stuff or it's easy to make, but also importantly like easy to transport. And I think like hopefully we all relate to this like you can't get Indian mangoes here in the US because they like

21:01 they don't survive. So much better than any other kind of mango. And

21:08 in Pakistan. In Pakistan. Yes. The Alphonse man, that's the best. But it's just like one of those things where it like the I guess the distribution network makes it hard to have kind of

21:20 biodiversity or food diversity because like the critical thing there is can you get it to market. And that's why a lot of the fruits are so monoculture. And that's I'm sure that's what what one of

21:32 the benefits of assay is like it's just easy to ship to the US. And therefore you can set up a supply chain in a way where some of these other things just won't make it. And it's invisible how much

21:42 kind of we're literally leaving on the table or leaving on the tree.

21:46 But man, some of that stuff is so tasty. No, and I think, I mean, that goes back to like the global North and, you know, the demands that we have of having, you know, that same fruit

21:55 available 24, not only 247, but throughout the year, right? Like

22:02 365 versus, you know, I grew up in Pakistan. You've lived in India, you just came back from India and, you know, yeah, just being able to eat like fruit there and like taste it And just the

22:12 value of that, like somehow we have lost value of that, right? So it's like taking that, those kind of things into account to not just biodiversity, but yeah, the value of how food actually

22:24 should be tasting. Yeah, the variety and the seasonality of it is something that's just part of the rhythms of life. Yeah. So I also grew up in India and that you think about Indian fruit. People

22:34 think mango immediately. They might think of something else like leachier or what have you. But I grew, I ate so many different kinds of fruits that I can't find here. Sita fo, which is like a,

22:43 it's like a custard apple. Yes. Yeah, that's very, around Diwali, right, it's an interesting. And Chiku, which is, it's called seppota. But it's like a brown, fuzzy, kiwi-looking thing,

22:56 but super sweet as a kid. I mean, everybody's favorite, but then you realize it's extremely sugary, you know what I mean? It's like mangoes too. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Especially all

23:04 phones and mangoes. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Like your question, yeah, I mean, I'm putting my, my Ag hat on now, which is the hat I wore for a very long time But our global food system is set up

23:14 because we optimize for different things, right? In the US, we optimize for convenience, consistency, price. And globally, we optimize for calories. And so my parents, both agronomists, come

23:25 from like a farming family. The, my uncle's farm here in the US looks very different from my grandfather's farm in India. We put all of our resources into breeding specific varieties of crops that

23:37 would yield as much as possible and as little land as possible compatible with synthetic fertilizer and irrigation systems and intensive cultivation, right? Being really, really close to each other

23:48 and being really, really short, all the different traits. And so that's given us the system we have today. It's encouraging to me to now talk to people who are in that space, developing new

24:00 varieties to see they're trying to diversify the crop mix. They're starting to use more biological fertilizers and thinking a bit more holistically. Agroforestry is something that I try to talk

24:11 about as much as possible because it's a really interesting bucket of system types. And it's as simple as adding trees to a farm. That's like the basic definition that I can give you for that. I'm

24:21 not sure how familiar you are, but it can be animals plus trees, animals plus crops, crops plus trees, all three at the same time, right? It's, we're leaning a bit more into the symbiosis

24:32 between different species. Whereas before, it was like trying to maintain lab conditions in the field. Only the one species that we want

24:42 and no insect species, no fungal species, just the, right? So now we're thinking more holistically about soil, health, and the microbiome of the plant, and the soil, and how they interact,

24:53 and how having different plants actually helps. I think we'll see a gradual change in the food system, and it takes generations to do that, so, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so did you say you would have

25:04 been doing this for now 15 months? Yes. Yeah, so how's it described as the journey, what's it's been like, and what are some of the challenges that you come across? Yeah, well, let's see where

25:17 to begin on the challenges. So we started out my friend

25:23 and co-founder, Danny, we met at Stanford, we started this together, but we also met two others who are now our business partners. They are also Chilean, they live in New York and Berlin, Danny

25:33 lives in SF, and I live in Houston. So first challenge, remote studio, it makes sense, because given that we don't have a center of gravity yet. Investing in an office space doesn't make a whole

25:44 lot of sense and having everyone move, you know. So we've been in the process of figuring out our, you know, as a team, I think many founders can relate to this, understanding your cadence,

25:55 your work cadence, navigating time zones, if fully remote teams are more common these days than ever before. And so that's been a challenge that we've been navigating and some successes, some

26:06 failures and it's a constant process of learning, right? Especially as we've added people to the team, you know, also in different time zones, right? And in Chile and Colombia and London, right?

26:18 Just as complexity to the picture, but it's also super cool to be able to work with people anywhere.

26:24 Number one challenge, logistically, right? And I always, as somebody who's more ops focused, I tend to think about the logistical ones first, but also strategically as a studio, we started off

26:34 thinking, okay, you know, it's a studio, we're gonna go out and we're gonna raise money for fun and we're gonna make the classic studio model happen Easier said than done. bad funding environment

26:43 for stuff. And a studio is not like a startup. You can't kind of go out there and pitch the studio and say, just trust me, I'll produce 10 startups that are investable for you. And it doesn't

26:52 make sense for us as a studio to take capital into the main entity one time because we are ideally producing, you know, five companies a year, 10 companies a year. So that doesn't really make

27:04 sense long-term. But like I said, there are many approaches to the studio model And we've been finding our own space there. So trying to build bridges to let them curious, climate-focused

27:19 investors in the states and in Europe and in the region, you know, building those relationships for the long term and then also building closer relationships with other actors in the space, impact

27:29 funds, developing organizations that are already there, even NGOs, so we can work with them to build our own track record It's kind of been the blended approach that we've taken. So we need to

27:40 build track record in a couple years in the process we'll develop our own pipeline of entrepreneurs and investors for either SPVs for those startups or to join as LPs when the fund is ready to start

27:53 shopping around. So that's been our approach. So the strategic, you know, figuring out where to funnel our short-term energies, our energy today to both continue to build our team and also build

28:03 track records so that we have the long-term vision in mind. That was a evolution, right? And in the process, we've built a couple companies and, you know, we've hosted events and we're starting

28:11 these accelerator programs and we've done boot camps and brought startups to the US. So it's just opportunistically doing what we can to continue to meet more people within our niche and expand our

28:24 network so that we are always, you know, building the potential for LPs to join our fund in the future and to just kind of have a strong roster of

28:38 entrepreneurs who are ready to start something or who are kind of waiting. to start a business so we can bring them to the studio and start doing more of that work. How do you filter for founders?

28:49 Or how do you identify them? Yeah.

28:53 We, it's another blended approach. One, universities are a great source. Regional universities, local universities, they tend to be less, less well networked than Stanford, to say the least.

29:08 And there's a lot of great talent there And often the recourse, the only thing to do, rather, the thing that you do is you go and you join a large corporate, I mean, in Chile, all the sectors

29:17 are highly concentrated. And the place to go is like the large forestry company, if you're a forestry engineer or a mining company, if that's your expertise. So there's no, there aren't as many

29:29 opportunities for those PhDs or masters level potential operators or technologists to go to something new, something that's focused on solving the challenges

29:42 increased, intense mining in Chile, especially. So universities tend to be a good source and through our business partners and other connections in Chile, it's a small country. Everybody's one

29:54 degree of separation away from you, more or less, but university contacts are really helpful investigators and heads of departments. So that's one source. We also do events in partnership with

30:05 other organizations that are trying to build their own funnel So it's really the filtration. This is top of funnel stuff, but just trying to get people in who have the right technical background.

30:18 They're connected to the region. They can either be living there, or from there, or intending to go there, right? So it could be somebody in Houston, right? Somebody at Rice who's here studying.

30:29 They're getting their MBA, but they want to start a company and have impact in Mexico or in Colombia, right? That would fit our profile And beyond that, it's really, there's a basic requirement.

30:41 entrepreneurs, beyond that, it's just, it's more about attitude and commitment to, to what you want to solve. I think, and you, you know this, those, those building lots are the same. And

30:52 that's, that's kind of something you have to finesse or you, you'll learn that through the process. Yeah. And I guess that's my question then, because if you bring in someone from college and you

31:02 said you have like a one year fellowship, you call it, you know, how do you train them and then find them to be these entrepreneurs, especially remotely.

31:15 Yeah, and it's a great question. It's something that we're learning to do. I think a lot of the time of a venture builder in a studio or an entrepreneur in residence is a lot of coaching. And with,

31:27 again, this Amazon program, again, there may be subject matter expertise and deep commitment. But how do I run a business? It's like a big question. In the typical, the more traditional VC

31:40 route.

31:42 Finding an investor is like the North Star. I need to have a great pitch deck. I need to be able to communicate my value proposition and raise money. I think that's important, but there are lots

31:53 of programs for that already.

31:56 Focusing on the building blocks of a business, how do I actually run the organization? How do I build a team? How do I create a culture and make sure that my product is delivering, right? We

32:07 focus on that, but that's a digression from your question

32:11 Our residency program is a year plus or minus. There is like a vetting process on paper before that. So we will meet periodically with the entrepreneur will have a series of kind of discussions

32:26 about the space that they want to work in. You gauge what you can from that, based on your rubric, and then you start working. And during that time, you focus on whatever the weaknesses are. I

32:35 think the studio model is much more hands-on. So it's not going to be just these five workshops these few speakers and. then you create a pitch deck and you go. Like, we figure out what are the

32:46 needs that need to be addressed for the specific entrepreneur, and we focus on that. So it could be that they just need a mentor, or they just really need work figuring out how to do a proper

32:57 operational model, how to do a sensitivity analysis or a techno-economic analysis. Maybe they're a really good technologist, but they need help in a different way, so it's very bespoke And you,

33:09 both you and your co-founder, are part of the team too, right? Yeah, that helps. Yeah, generally there's one co-founder kind of on each team for the duration of that year, and then we'll be an

33:23 advisor ongoing. But it's a co-founder and it's a venture builder from Reciprocal with the entrepreneur, and then we add people to the team as necessary. Ideally, there are two co-founders by the

33:34 end of the process. Super exciting When you lived in many different places, how did you end up? Houston. Yes.

33:45 Great question. I never expected to be in Houston.

33:50 It's really personal reasons. I mean, my partner lives here. She's in medicine. And my job is much more flexible than hers. So I'm here. So I didn't necessarily have

34:02 a reason from my professional side to move here in the first place. But I've been pleasantly surprised by the community here. And I think Houston has a lot to bring to this fight, so to speak.

34:18 Coming from the SF ecosystem, it feels like the center of the world, center of the universe, especially when it comes to climate. New York has got something going on, but Houston flies under the

34:27 radar. I think because people here are pragmatic, they tend to look at all the different pieces and bring everything to the table in a way that I think wouldn't necessarily fly. in a more, I'm not

34:44 calling it like a purist ecosystem, but I think every city has, every region has its own specific niche and specific way of approaching these problems. And Houston's is much more, of course,

34:56 coming from legacy industry here. And from the perspective of the at like actually are who people, engineers

35:03 facility and dealing with problems there, much more hands on So Houston, the reason for coming here was totally personal, but I think it's a great place to be for this. I think given the talent

35:16 here, the capital here, and the innovation ecosystem that already exists, I think it's a great place to be for climate, especially we're talking about more traditional energy transition, but even

35:26 the under-appreciated reciprocal elements of the energy transition, I think it's a super interesting place to be. I'm curious, mostly 'cause I don't know as much about the California ecosystem. So

35:38 one of the things you said that in California, there's this kind of view that it's the center of climate tech. I guess tell us what that means. And I don't know if I - We would question that. Oh,

35:49 well, I don't think that there's a view, but I'm curious kind of where that emerges from. 'Cause when you think about a lot of the like energy and climate companies of the past, they didn't

36:01 necessarily come from California. I guess there's just Tesla, maybe not just Tesla, but like, where does that mindset come from? I mean, I think it depends on how you measure. You measure this,

36:13 there's a lot of capital in Silicon Valley that's being allocated for climate right now. And by that metric alone, it is the center of the universe. It far outstrips any other ecosystem in the

36:23 world, right? At the same time, I think that philosophically, California has led on a lot of environmental issues in the past, and we have Berkeley, you've got the UC system, you've got

36:34 Stanford, that very concentrated area and there are a lot of really smart people doing. a lot of very interesting research on the environmental side and very talented technologists. So I think that

36:47 you could argue correctly that it is the center of climate tech, but I think it's a very specific kind of climate tech that I've seen, at least. There are strengths that they play to there, so I

36:59 mean obviously software is

37:03 unparalleled spread, but even making big bets that may not pan out 90 of the time, making a bet on something that somebody in Houston wouldn't invest in today. I think the risk appetite is high

37:18 because they've seen a payoff, and so investors and that's a very are willing to take risks And I think this mindset that also comes from California is that for

37:33 like a legacy industry or a corporate entity to actually be able to innovate and transform is really hard, right? I mean, if you list, you know, the innovators dilemma and like all the professors

37:48 from Berkeley, right? Like that's what they preach is that actually for a corporation to totally innovate and particularly talking about oil and gas companies. Whereas over here, we don't embrace

38:02 that philosophy and we really think that no, all oil and gas companies are going to transition, right? And they're going to lead the transition in some ways. It's a different mentality too,

38:12 because we are so invested in oil and gas. I think that's very insightful. I think that there's a mindset of, we need to disrupt industries from the outside that has borne fruit in the past. And I

38:30 think it's valid in a lot of ways. Innovation from within corporates is notoriously slow difficult. because there's an agenda already, right? Like the cash cow is there. So if this is like the,

38:42 I may as well spend my resources on the cash cow. So then the belief is that the incentives are there for disruption to come from the outside. And there's also this ethos of building a better world,

38:54 right? And that dreaming about the better world, right? So I think that drives a lot of innovation there, but I think it takes you to a certain place. And then when it comes to scaling,

39:04 especially something that is physical infrastructure, that's kind of where Houston, I think the ecosystem here has strong advantages. Yeah, no, we like to hear that from someone who's, not from

39:17 Houston who's come here and says, like, you know, I think I'm gonna stay, right? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that this could be a place where you can't innovate and weak,

39:28 especially when it comes to climate tech and energy transition. Yeah What was something that was like a pleasant surprise in the Houston innovation ecosystem?

39:39 I've met people,

39:42 I think, so again, I had zero expectations. I thought everybody here was just like oil and gas, and you know, but all jokes aside, I've met people who come from industry who are passionate about

39:54 the issues I'm passionate about, and

39:57 like they talk to me very technically, like we're gonna solve the problem, okay? That's a given. Now we're gonna do A, B, C, and then we're gonna, if we mess up there, we're gonna go back and

40:09 try this thing, right? It's a very hands-on, pragmatic attitude, right? Action-oriented attitude. That's something I like, right? You know, I love imagining things. I'm not as good at it,

40:22 to be honest. I'm more of an action-oriented person, more of like, how do I operationalize this, and turn into something that works? And I've really enjoyed that about Houston, about people I've

40:31 met anyway, who are in this energy transition space. Yeah.

40:38 you live in Montrose, have you found like a hidden gem in Houston, a place that you like that has also surprised you? No, let's go like in Montrose specifically. In Montrose specifically. In

40:47 Montrose specifically.

40:51 Let's see. I mean, there are tons of great spots in Montrose. Yeah. We're talking like, we're talking food. Either or, whatever. Food's an easy one. Yeah, it's always an easy one. In

41:03 Houston, yeah. It's an easy one. Well, I will be subconsciously thinking about Montrose, but first I will recommend and shout out to Taylor Chapman at the time of ventures, but it should get on

41:13 to Bayou. Yes. Kayak, stand up, paddle board. Start at like the Arboretum. This is the Buffalo Bayou or Buffalo Bayou? Yeah, Buffalo Bayou, yes. Arboretum all the way to Elinertin's Lee.

41:24 Amazing. There's a bird sanctuary in between. You feel like you're somewhere. I don't know about this. It's the first sanctuary. Yeah. Oh, correct. Yeah, it's super lush. Even in summertime,

41:33 you can do it, you think, or you would - The water level now is pretty high. Okay.

41:38 It's very exposed. So I wouldn't recommend going somewhere. Maybe wait until November or something. But it's great. Would recommend that. Okay. In the gym, I didn't expect it. So you go from

41:49 the arboretum, like there's a launching point to get onto a kayak. There are a few. Yeah. So there's one bridge. I'm not, I don't know all the numbers yet. Okay, so there's not a rental place

41:56 there. You have to bring my own kind of situation. Okay, like an inflatable one. Whatever. If you have something. Okay. I'm sure Taylor will lend you one. Yeah, Taylor's offered. I gotta

42:04 take him up on it. Yeah, absolutely No, he lent me one, so he's a gotch covered. There's a launch point over there and there are multiple places you can get out in Buffalo Bay Park and Alden

42:14 Tinsley Park. I think I had a dumb portion. Do you have a friend pick you up or do you get an Uber? When you're done? Like how does that mechanically work? We work, so you can either have people

42:23 like, you can drive one car down and then carpool back to the drop point launch point, or you can just deflate your inflatable. and just Uber back to your car. Okay, a lot of options. It's very,

42:34 yeah, okay. There are ways to do this. We figured this out as a society, okay. So that's cool. So you literally can do a kayak down the bayou. Yes. That's awesome. I just wouldn't drink the

42:43 water. Okay. Just don't swallow it. Don't swallow it. I was gonna say I was like, I followed in the Charles, I followed in the bayou. Like you're just gonna follow in every major body of water.

42:52 Make sure you survive following the Amazon. I dig into the Amazon. Yeah. A lot of things you shouldn't do But no, in Montrose,

43:02 I don't know. I feel like my recommendation is gonna be pretty mainstream. I like,

43:08 so there's a trio, or I guess it's a quad of restaurants and gastronomic establishments. One is March, which is like a very high-end restaurant. Multicores thing. The other is Rosie Cannonball.

43:25 And right next to it is Montrose, cheese and wine. And there's a new restaurant now, a fourth one. But Matros, cheese and wine, free wine on Wednesday. Ooh, evenings. I think fine. I know

43:35 our tea meetings are gonna happen now. Free wine tasting, great cheeses. And then Rosie Cannibal, you can go straight from there to Rosie Cannibal. They have a reverse happy hour from nine to 10,

43:43 where pizza and drinks are half off. Yeah. Check that out, it's two blocks from my house, so I'm there a lot. Yeah. We're always stopping at cheese and wine for the Portuguese egg tarts, which

43:54 is surprisingly good. I love those, yeah. Yeah, they are good, yeah Yeah. Yeah, that's a fun little corner, but it is funny how to do these little walking pockets, and that's one of the few

44:04 places you see people just always, I don't even know where they're going, it's only a strip that's half a mile wide, not even, but it's bustling, so it's nice, yeah. Yeah, so I was a character

44:15 building experience reminds me of being home when I have to cross Westheimer. There are no crosswalks and big trucks. Oh yeah. Yeah,

44:25 we would also love to hear from you on,

44:29 Being in Houston, coming from California, from San Francisco Bay Area, what do you think is missing in Houston when it comes to our ecosystem, our startup ecosystem? And as we evolve and as we

44:42 build the energy techniques, what should we be keeping in mind?

44:49 I'm, again, I'm a newbie here, right? I'm not as familiar with all the elements of the ecosystem that exist within my space. I don't see as much activity on the nature side, especially, and you

45:02 know, that makes sense. Yeah. Right. I'm hoping personally to build that community a bit more and especially explicitly connect it to Latin American Caribbean. So we have an event coming up

45:15 Houston Climate Week Thursday morning

45:18 If you're out there and you're a Latin interested founder, investor, or somebody who wants to work in climate in the region, or you're curious about what's out there for partnership opportunities,

45:29 et cetera, hit me up. But as far as the needs, it's hard for me to say in terms of entrepreneurial support at different stages, just because I'm still understanding the full breadth of things

45:40 available here. The innovation ecosystem is very strong I think just topically around nature tech, but like biodiversity. as a service or whatever term you wanna create for different elements of

45:53 this more nature-focused theme, nature-based theme. I think that's something that will probably come with time when we demonstrate there are opportunities there, but there aren't as many people

46:04 working in that space. And one thing that I would love to add to the ecosystem is some of that

46:12 boot camps. Like, what does it mean? What are payments for ecosystem services? How can they be implemented and monetized? How can I think about the systems-level view of my specific project that

46:26 I'm implementing here? Because often, if I'm coming from a place of optimization or I'm really focused on one specific innovation, my perspective is going to be, I have this thing. It's going to

46:38 fix everything I'm going to put it there, and it's going to work with natural systems and with more complex systems. I think it's important to have that view This is an interconnect system. and

46:48 considering all those elements. That's something that I try to preach and something I'll hope to bring a bit more to the ecosystem. Yeah, I know, absolutely. And I think it's needed. I mean,

46:59 Houston is an industrial city, right? So it makes sense that we don't, we think about systems only in the industrial perspective, but you will be also surprised how many people are thinking about

47:10 biodiversity and are thinking about nature-based systems because Houston also is growing and expanding really fast And we're losing our ecosystems and people are noticing it, you know, the monarchs,

47:22 for example, their population is declined 90

47:27 and they're crucial for, you know, pollination and so many other benefits that we get as a society. Yeah, Houston is a very diverse confluence of different ecosystems, actually. It was being

47:38 enlightened by somebody when that year in Houston about how diverse this region actually is. Yeah. And of course, Houston feels the brunt of more intense storms more flooding and all these other

47:49 existential risks.

47:52 But I look forward to meeting those folks who we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to introduce you to some of those.

47:59 How can people who are listening help you be part of what you're doing? How can they reach out?

48:06 So I mentioned very briefly, but if you're a founder interested in working in climate in Latin America and the Caribbean, I would love to talk to you If you're an investor or another stakeholder in

48:18 the ecosystem who's trying to deepen your reach or understand what the environment is in the region or within a specific country, I would love to chat with you. We exist to, yes, increase the

48:33 quantity and quality of startups coming out of the region for climate and nature tech, but we also are trying to increase the flow of information and capital and people between Houston and an

48:46 American Caribbean, right? Berlin, Latin American Caribbean. I think there's a lot of connections that can be solidified, and I would love to talk about any and all things there. So you don't

48:55 have to be based out of Latin America or the Caribbean's? No, because if we're thinking about an investor from the US, very welcome. Even a founder who has a connection to the region who is

49:08 currently living in Houston or has living Houston their whole life, but wants to do work that impacts the different areas that we care about in the region, very open to chatting. And the best way

49:18 to reach me is probably LinkedIn, I think, that's the easiest and that's going to be in the show notes. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes, yeah. We'll come to one of our events at the OG

49:25 Technics, yes. Yes, that's the other way to do it. Yeah. And our Gaffet Iklima, Houston Climate Tech, Houston Energy and Climate Week event, Thursday 912 at 9am. Okay, we'll make you more

49:37 details coming

49:41 soon. Yeah, we can. Yeah, we can. We're recording, it's like 32 days away. I know. It'll be soon. Yeah, good. good to have you here. Yeah, thank you for - It's been great, super fun.

49:49 Sharing with us, yeah.