Energy Tech Startups

0:00 Welcome back to the show. Today we have Chris Westmoreland, who's the CEO of Renew Energy Services. And we have Jason Wozniak of CEO of Longhorn Energy Group. And they're here today to talk to us

0:12 about how we can decarbonize oil and gas and a process they've developed and are deploying and reducing the practice that'll help us achieve that. So I guess, Chris, do you want to kick it off and

0:25 tell us what you're working on? Yes, sure. So Renew Energy Services is a waste to energy focused company. Our whole IP and

0:37 the architecture of the company is to find ways to capture greenhouse gases or things that are considered as opportunistic, to clean those up, to be able to put a value to those and exchange the the

0:56 value on both sides. upstream and downstream, and so we're looking to be able to utilize that in some of the oil and gas field. We're using that in green energy field. So there's a multitude of

1:10 different ways that Renu can impact environmental opportunities to be able to financially support the company and its growth. So we have a project that I have with Jason that we're working on, and

1:25 we're really excited about that opportunity. It's

1:28 not only is it a decarbonizing project, but it also brings in a level of smartness. We're elevating the operations of

1:38 the facility because we're taking the AI that we use within our system and be able to apply that into the facility that we're trying to build. So there's a kind of a multi-stack out of this project

1:52 Yeah, we really recognize the need going into the future for both having. I mean, we've seen this in a lot of different spaces. What do you do with all of, you know, we've found really good ways

2:02 to use the energy we have at our fingertips. But what about some of these waste streams, products? How do you repurpose those? Some people recapture it, go into Bitcoin mining and there's great

2:14 advances there. But, you know, I've come from an industrial gas background. And so when Chris and I were talking, it really made a lot of sense given my experience of hydrogen and with his

2:25 innovation and his technology that we could pair up together and really find a way to build a site that would truly

2:35 decarbonize the process, produce renewable energies

2:41 and be a model for how future farms should be set up. And also we think retroactively fit existing sites. So it's really good technology. We're very excited to start this adventure together We've

2:55 seen it work in a lab. Let's get it going at scale. Let's see how big the scale is. I want to go global with it. We think we can. And so this is one of our first steps. So tell us a little bit

3:07 about kind of lab scale.

3:10 Obviously you have inputs and you have outputs.

3:14 How large, how much volume are we talking about today? Well, the lab scale is obviously significantly small. As lab scale would be, we have a system we put together in our facility out in Waller,

3:28 Texas. It's

3:32 13 gallons a day. So it's literally, it's a very, very, very tiny system. However, we've done the engineering, the beauty of Renew, not only is the IP, but we also have an engineering company

3:45 that allows us

3:49 to be able to take our engineering staff and support those engineering efforts So we already kind of have this built-in ecosystem. um, along with being able to grab other technologies that are in

4:01 the Houston economy already, uh, that we got connected through some of the green towns or some of the eye on. So some of the other, uh, connections that we've had, we've been able to take these

4:10 other, um, technologies and kind of prove out some of this stuff on a, on a smaller scale. And then because, uh, the engineering company that I own vertex, vertex is recognized by in rail, uh,

4:23 we actually have partners within rail And so NREL uses us to do third party verification for DOE, uh, projects. And so for solar projects, geothermal, those kinds of projects. So we have some

4:34 bit of a recognition, uh, of that we are in just considered subject matter experts and kind of really know this industry. I've been doing this for 30 plus years. So, uh, half the team, we've

4:45 got physicists and, uh, all discipline PE. So we have a good solid staff to be able to draw in to say, Hey, this is legit We can back this up and we actually had a third. party verification

4:57 already. We had a Canadian company come in, they were some physicists and they looked at it and go, Yep, technology is solid. We understand it works. We actually posted a video on

5:10 YouTube, then LinkedIn, showing our partnership with Intel and how we foresee this growing into. So going back to your question, it's a really small system, but we've got the engineering and the

5:26 financial knowledge behind it to make sure that it really can go to scale. Right now, it's just the financial challenge. So maybe to benchmark the scale, so I would say at 13-gallon, you

5:37 definitely have a reactor and a system that's proven the process. When you're not tinkering in test tubes, we move beyond that. And so the scale you want to jump to is doing what we'd say like a

5:51 first-of-kind pilot. Now we're talking about barrels, and we're not talking about single barrels. We're thousands of barrels. And so, the stack of the barrels we want to do. It's difficult,

6:02 right? So, well, this is - And just, I think your first time yet, how much of the waste you can, 'cause we, I remember we had this conversation once and we both crossed lines, you're like,

6:14 you're giving me a much smaller number. It's a complicated answer. That's the challenge, right? And that's why we got into it, because this is a complicated situation. We all have a enormous

6:24 amount of waste that needs to be dealt with, right? So originally I went back to working on plastics, how do I convert plastics? And so I'm one of the part of the team that helped develop plastics.

6:36 And most of all the facilities around the world is building the plastics. Then I felt like it was kind of my duty to kind of help give some solutions to some of these challenges that we need to

6:48 address. And that's kind of where we're new came in. And so we can take organic or inorganic waste, I'm not, I don't care whether it's one or the other. But what we've done is we've taken a bunch

7:01 of old technology and put it in a way that is super safe, very low maintenance and very

7:14 simple to run or simpler to run without having all those complexity and stuff. So we spent a great deal of time. I mean, I've spent five, 10 years working on this So it's not a, hey, I came up

7:25 with this yesterday. It was, I actually started working on paralysis, which is part of some of the process 32 years ago. And so I've actually been exposed to the technology and the downfall of the

7:39 technology and why it didn't work in the 90s and the 2000s. And we took all of that historic knowledge, went back to the old guys and said, well, what did you do and why did you have problems?

7:50 What was your Achilles heel every time? and so the movement engineer around that problem. and say, Okay, well, if we had this solution, it's funny. I had one guy. They had built a system and

8:02 sold it in Australia. And he came and he's like, Man, I can't tell you how I wish Rudy had had you in the '80s. It used been such a big help and could it help thus survive because they wound up

8:15 closing up because he couldn't resolve that issue. And so I think it's just timing. One thing, the technologies have kind of caught up with and then now we're developing the hardware further along

8:29 and so, but yeah, we can, that's what we had the third-party verification was it was showing it up to scale. So right now, we can go all the way down to a five-gallon trash bag to produce energy

8:41 for you and your house. All we can go all the way out to our first system that we're looking at is going to be a 10, 000 barrel a day initial start. We don't want to say pilot because pilot has

8:55 horrible connotation. So it's the first start plant and then it will stack on top of that. So we know we're focusing on kind of like modular design because that will help multiple aspects. One, it

9:08 gives you growth space. You can take up less area. That's been a traditional problem with historical refinery spaces that they take up so much space that they just get to a point where they can't

9:19 grow. And then when they do have technologies that can come in, you can't just shut down a system. It's so webbed into everything else that's going on. It's very difficult to then bring in a new

9:33 process to make that cleaner. And so that's part of what our process is, too, is that if I can

9:41 take a bunch of different technologies that we've proven out and that works and put those into a lot smaller package, then now Now we give the ability for these other guys to be able to say okay well

9:54 what would have

9:56 10 acres to do, now we can do in one acre. And that we believe is significant because that changes the whole scale of being able to change a refinery from something that was not able to be as

10:10 reductive on their CO2s or reductive on their methane or whatever gases and stuff that they were doing. And to now they can go, yeah, we can do that. I can, I simply now re-pipe that into our

10:21 system and now we've got a capability And there are a few other companies that are trying to bring in that same kind of concept. It's now starting to be the directive focus is moving towards that,

10:34 how do we make this? And so the modularized systems is gonna be the plan of the future. And so that's what we're doing. And so we've done the engineering enough to get us from the, I can put it in

10:46 your house to I can put it in a commercial building to we can put it into an industrial system It'll be a smaller scale, and that's what we want to show out and say, hey, you know, and then

10:59 At that point, we're just stacking them. Yeah, just going to eliminate that whole skyline of distillation towers we see in smog and no longer flares are going to be - No more smog, as a constant

11:09 in-service item. It'll be only in emergencies. You're going to see that stuff really repurposed and a smaller footprint. So I think, you know, I've spent 32 years in oil and gas

11:24 The greatest significant of my projects have all been environmentally safety and focused. So I'm hesitant with that. Those comment, 'cause I know he's pushing me like, Hey, go ahead. But

11:39 I've spent my career trying to embed her

11:43 the refineries that we have with the sole purpose of being shared with the incentive of the company doing that.

11:55 'cause I came in and did it was the company was focused on, hey, how do we reduce, every molecule that goes in the atmosphere is a molecule that couldn't be sold. And from the 1930s to 2030, we

12:11 have leaps and bounds gone from where we were. I actually, whenever I was in high school, I met a guy that was actually working in oil and gas and that he actually helped build wood piping here And

12:24 I thought he was pulling my leg. Can you imagine that? But he actually pulled out pictures and showed me. He's like, no, I literally helped build wood piping to help the flow of the crude oil

12:34 when Houston was first being built. And so to go from the pictures I saw and my great uncle actually used to help build the bunk houses for conical Phillips. And so I've got a long history with the

12:50 oil and gas industry And I think we've tried to -

12:56 make some steps towards that. We, they still have a lot of steps that still need to go and we're hoping that we're that, you know, that step change in here where we can say, hey, well, here's a,

13:07 here's a chunk where we can do this, cost effectively and where it makes sense and can help address this and do it in a better manner. But I don't also don't want to villainize them either because I

13:20 was a part of the team that was helping build those. And I know that we were focused on as a team, how do we make sure that this is, we have to go home, we have to live. I'm working in that. I'm

13:31 literally on site every day. I'm in that mix. I don't want my health condition on my grandchildren or to be impacted negatively. So those are just as important to me as they are to everyone else.

13:46 But it's how do we get there and that transition. And that's where here at the twilight in my career, I want to be a part of that solution saying, well, here's another step that we can take that

13:59 will help us, but help you too, because it's going to help you keep more of those molecules that you can take financially secure to help support those changes. And so, but I think our goal is that

14:12 we want to make sure that we're leaving a positive impact behind. We can show without having to have carving credits without having to have stipends or other things to help do this, but we can do it

14:27 on a capitalistic market in a way that can still benefit everybody. And then as we grow too, you know, because I work with I'm a plastic. I want to pause you there. So I want to give Jason some

14:39 time to talk about the capitalist market part of this kind of thing. So how does long long horn play into this? So, you know, my little more on my back was a nuclear power, wasn't doing

14:45 industrial gas, you know, I went from

14:55 You need to share that, I think it's a really important your history before that. Well, we'll get to it later. We'll get it to it later, that's fine. But

15:06 along that path, I got involved in a lot of,

15:11 we'll call it value engineering projects, ways to

15:15 simplify things to where it doesn't cost you. So when it doesn't break down as often, how do you do all these things? And that was,

15:24 Chris and I met looking for that solution. And a lot of Chris's technology is part of that solution, is managing a waste portion of your plant in a way that doesn't take up a large footprint, still

15:38 takes care of that problem for you. And ultimately, he's gonna improve the reliability of the service, of the terminaling service. So you're gonna have a lot less downtime almost not in

15:51 only really eliminating waste but turning that in. a counter product.

15:57 It really works out as far as we've modeled it. We think it's a great plan. We've spent a lot of time talking through the various challenges. There's some we've for sure missed. We're going to

16:10 learn along the way, but we're really tried to tug on the strings of this project and say, What are the things that happen in this midstream part of the business? of the industry that we could

16:26 capitalize on, and that's what we focus our attention, our energies on, and that's some of the gaps that the technology closes for us. It allows us to be very competitive. We think that we're

16:37 going to have a pretty economical product at the end of the day and might very well have some pricing impacts. But again, these are all things of scale and things that we plan, But when you're

16:49 looking at is there financial basis for this type of project, absolutely. I mean, really, when you look at what you're using, what you're transitioning in here, it's interesting that there's not

17:03 more of it.

17:07 Why would you offsite handle some of these base streams when you could take care of it right there? And you know, it's probably one of those things where you didn't have the focus, you had a lot of

17:17 the concerns around it are from a safety perspective. And we and Tris has addressed those in a way that makes it very much,

17:29 you know, fits my safety standard, like I said, with the nuclear power and industrial gas, you know, you're very safety conscious, you're talking about energized systems, you're talking about

17:38 pressurized systems, so really no shortcuts to be had there. You know, if anything, we're adding redundancies, where everyone comes home in as good or better condition than what's arrived in. So

17:52 that's our motto. It's it is people first kind of company and situation, and we built a site that addresses all of those concerns and is going to be very profitable. Yeah. And I think earlier you

18:07 talked a little bit about how you're pulling together funding to build out this project. That's right. What size project are we talking about for the audience listening? About 400 million. Okay.

18:17 Would be good. It gets us off the ground, gets everything tied up in terms of the engine It's engineering and sets us up for. That's for the tank farm part. Yeah. That's just for my side. It's

18:27 about 150 million for me. Okay. So not a large project in the scheme of things from an energy perspective. Yeah. Yeah. It's very typical of a midstream production site. So yeah, we're

18:45 actually a little less expensive. We should say more about size because it's really. Yeah. The more interesting things. The footprint's small, right? We're on 72 acres. We found ways of

18:55 constructing, of pulling this together that are going to help reduce that upfront cost. Like I said, part of my

19:04 background is that kind of cost reductions, cost control methods and stuff, and knowing and working with companies that haven't really long history and really proven track record so that we can

19:15 reliably budget for them and plan timelines around those types of activities, that's what we, that was the upfront work that we did that helped, you know, help us outline is this financially

19:28 viable project. And not only on the upfront side, I mean, and it's a lower cost, but it's because we're, you know, we're using specific vendors, we're buffing, you know, we're taking the

19:40 right steps from team through, we have tons of years of experience across the team. Yeah, with our PM experience, you know, that really kind of helps us be able to manage those projects So I've

19:49 done PM Engineering and PM Construction. So we're both able to take those learned experiences and be able to share that into. So we've got lots of industry connections that we're able to reach out

19:60 to and help us value those and being a part of that valued engineering chain. We've learned along the way about how to be able to use resources in the area that we can take. And

20:14 we actually, for the renew side, we actually got an opportunity that we're still working through, but we have an opportunity where we're taking an actual old bio,

20:27 manure facility that didn't go and able to buy that on a discount and be able to use that into. So we can take that equipment that's already existing and repurpose it into this situation. So there's

20:38 a lot of where we've got that industry experience where we can kind of help each other and say, hey, I've got this contact over here that we can get this entire brand new facility that wasn't even

20:47 run for a year. and be able to take that capital cost and shift it over and bring in a significant, you know, cost adder. So there's already, we've kind of built in even just on some of the cost

20:59 adder just on it. And that was some of the challenge. And if we're deviating too far, you can grab me back. But that was part of this project too, was that we, you know, I've really struggled

21:10 with trying to get funding capital recognition for the technologies that we have One, because it's very complex. And two, we just don't have a large scale one. So they can go, OK, yeah, sure it

21:24 works. Like, well, OK, even though we had a third party verified, it was still like we did just the valuing is just not there. And so with this, we're able to actually do a different for the

21:38 new part, at least anyway. We're actually able to go out to a poverty equity group and say, look, you know, the cost of facilities twice what we're even asking to build for it So we've already

21:48 got. you know, money into the project just from the fact that we're building it because the value of the facility we're buying is 10 X of what we're paying for it. So we've kind of already built in

21:58 some of that capital opportunity to say, hey, look, you know, I recognize that there's a risk in there. This is how we're going to manage that. So we kind of went back to a traditional bridge

22:10 funding opportunity versus trying to use riskier or more challenged

22:17 VC funding methods, you know, so we're trying to use that instead of trying to take, take some of the de-risk it, get us to where we need for this first project, and then that can kind of start

22:27 being a better flow.

22:31 And is this the facility's going to be in Waller or is it somewhere else? No, the facility's in the Gleana Park. So right on the ship channel. Okay, I know it's a little about midstream. So tell

22:40 me like, where's Gleana Park? I assume this is on pipeline or adjacent to existing pipelines. Right on the Houston Ship Journal. Like we had direct access because it has multiple access points for

22:52 us. We have road, pipeline, barge, and rail, everything that you could ask for. It's huge. I mean, so it's, it's the dream opportunity for somebody wanting to get into this because the fact

23:03 that it has rail, car, and water access, deep channel water access, that's, that's, that's huge. And this is a facility where you're going to build these tank farms and store the crude oil

23:15 coming in or going out or either. So it's a terminal. Yeah. So you'll be doing this for understanding for us here. Yeah. Yeah. And all that's great. I know it's always good to educate because

23:26 it's, uh, it's an interesting part of the stream to be in because, um, you interact with both up and down stream and end up also, um, being a customer in and of yourself because, uh, there's,

23:39 uh, there's trading systems involved now that trade on the value of physical assets and we'll be holding on to those physical assets. And it really gives us international access. That's, that's

23:48 what's even better. But so we actually can, can utilize the opportunity for grabbing contracts, which may not be available in a local area, which is huge. Because now we can bring in, you know,

24:00 there's more, it's not just oil, it's not just LPG. We can bring in plastics. We can bring in other materials, tires, whatever, because we're going to be able to ecologically make sure that

24:11 we're taking care of those. And we'll have monitors and sensors to show that we're not doing this We're not - it's not just a claim. It's actually being proven part of our AI technology. We can

24:21 actually show, like, look, we are cleaning this up. So we can take a lower cost value crude oil, or one of those other things, clean it up and be able to sell it at a higher market. So it's a

24:31 huge opportunity in that. So what's the - is there a green premium, or is it just a regular commodity is premium, because you're able to convert it to something more valuable? That's a question of

24:39 the market, right? That's the best full thing, yeah. What is the market going to value it? Because we're doing aviation fuel.

24:47 Along with biofuels, aviation fuel and hydrogen, but aviation fuel right now, there's a claim that a green aviation fuel is super needed. We've had some, we've been talking to United Airlines and

24:57 a few other corporate companies to say, Hey, we want to provide these fuels for you. What's the actual real, where's your contracts? Where's the LOIs for that? And I think that really kind of

25:08 drives some of this too, as we get commitments to say JetBlue says, Hey, we want to purchase X And that really starts proving out the market. We know there's a couple of companies that have made a

25:21 few contracts with them for that. So we know that there's a potential market for it, but where that's actually gonna lay. That's, you know, we do have some jet fuel opportunities, but, you know,

25:32 we're gonna build those out. We do have some commodity traders that can help us, and we're partnered with DLA Piper, the commodity legal firms. So they're helping us with those commodities So,

25:43 you know, there's, there's a. There's a huge stack. I mean, like I said, it's a very complicated model, but that's the whole point. You know, that's why a lot of people won't touch you. They

25:51 want the easy money, but where we're gonna have real changes, we've got to address those complexities and manage those. And that's what we're trying to do is be the management of that.

26:03 And this is, again, for me to try to understand this part of the industry.

26:09 So what would your customers be doing if this kind of facility didn't exist, right? And what are you guys doing differently? 'Cause, I mean, the way I've understood it, it's a storage facility,

26:20 but then you're processing in that facility. How is it done today? And how are you doing it differently? Other than, yeah. It's so cheap, eh? Yeah. I've been talking too much. I'll give the

26:33 high-level Yeah. because we'll put it on the details. But for the most part, it's split up. So you have, you would have a site that would do the storing and the trembling have a refinery that

26:42 you'd see next to where those are the ones where you'll see them. several tall towers with circular stairs going all around them. And then, um, and then you would, uh, there'd be another

26:51 facility that you probably wouldn't even recognize that would be processing those waste streams and there's companies out there that do that. Um, if you're in the industry, you know, who they are,

27:00 but, um, and then, and they do all do a lot of good stuff, but they don't really combine together and see themselves as a full closed loop system, which is what we were really looking for It was

27:10 a way to, um, close those gaps, refine it, uh, within our facility and do it in a way that doesn't take up a lot of space and does it very, um, economically and ecologically. So it's a

27:22 refinery and storage in one, it's a mid-stream project. It's a, it's an advanced mid-stream project. Yeah. So it's, it's more so than, you know, we're going to step beyond, most mid-streams

27:34 will only, uh, just do like a, a quick strip So they may pull off water or connoisseur or those kind of things. This can get a lot further detailed in, so we're a step before refinery, but not

27:46 actually really wanting to claim being a refinery. Well, why don't you help us here? 'Cause, you know, I do know very little about the little industry, so like, you know, so let's walk through

27:55 like how a barrel of oil gets to market, and maybe that's helpful to explain kind of where things are, and I realize it's complicated. I know, my gosh, this gas is on the way, right? So let's

28:04 say, look, like, we know it's at, you know, with shale, right? The oil comes out of the well head, it comes up, it goes into, you know, a holding tank, essentially from there. And then it

28:16 gets into a pipeline at some point. Or a ship, perfect. Well, well, I'm saying, like, if we're in the Permian, right? Yeah. So when I was in that barrel, before you were getting middling,

28:24 you would pump it up, put in the storage, do separations to get out the sands and the solids and the gases and then separate those into most likely a gathering station. So you'll collect those and

28:37 then you'll store it larger tanks, and that's all still in the pipeline. Yeah, it would be all on site. Well out of the ground, it's not fairly. It was, it's coming out with dirt, it's coming

28:49 out with water kinds of stuff. Everything is around. Yeah, it's very dirty and nasty. And so that's what the separation part is. So they do some of that clean out. They do that kind of on site,

28:59 and then it goes into a gathering facility. In most places, again, there's some areas where you get in better, but in general. Where you are in the world, 'cause you are a sewer crew, so you

29:09 even necessarily know, especially when you talk about global, it's different in life taxes. Well, so let's talk about West Texas, 'cause it's easy, 'cause we're kind of near it. So we're in the

29:20 Permian, we've gathered this stuff up. It's dirty, but we've kind of separated out the sand. And it's considered more of a sweet curd. So the reason there's no H2S, our minimal H2S, minimal

29:29 sulfur, this and that. That's part of what's different with ours. We actually want the stuff that nobody else wants, because that's 25.

29:39 this years ago, I used to then kind of model the wave from heavy summer crude and they more tooled up the facilities to be, they can still, a lot of them can still like Texas Valero, Texas City

29:54 Valero, it's set up where it can still do de-sulfering, but there's most of the facilities kind of went away from it because it's cheaper. You get more of the proof from Prof. Saudi Arabia is a

30:03 whole lot easier to deal with and it's less destructive on the piping and those kind of things and so that's where the market went to because it was simple and easy and quick and that's kind of where

30:15 we're wanting to be different as we're wanting to take either war. We don't care that it's got solids in it, whatever we can manage that in a cost-effective way that we can take those and then sell

30:25 that. So that's what you would do is you're trying to get the point where you can maximize the return out of the molecules you're getting, correct? So you want to get as much gas, natural gas, as

30:37 much oil, fruits as clean crude as you can, and then pipeline that to a refinery or some other processing facility where they'll put it through the distillation towers and process it further into

30:50 gasoline and other products, and so we're kind of, we're wanting to be in that middle part, so we still want to be the midstream, but we want to do a little bit of the refinery because we feel

31:04 that that's where we can put in the greenhouse reduction opportunities, right? So that's where we can go in and we can take the produced water and we can filter those or we can get the heavy crude

31:14 oil or the sandy crude oil, those kind of things that we can take and then clean those up and grab that cost. So time out for me, so when it comes off a ship coming off of like the coast, like it

31:24 still might have us saying a lot of gunk in it. Okay, it could come from anywhere. Okay. So, and a lot of this is our North American crude is what we'll really be able to target with this process.

31:39 I mean, you heard pipeline projects, trans kind of pipeline. Yeah, I don't know, Pennsylvania, the Great Lakes, those kind of things. You know, why did they stop a lot of that stuff? Well,

31:49 hey, you know, it was really going to muck up our ability to process. Yeah, the API is a lot heavier on the oils that are up north. And so whenever you have that heavy, heavy crew, there's a

31:59 lot more work you have to do. And we have technologies where we can add that and get that better to a better API. That's easier to deal with Before it goes to the process, yeah. So once we get it

32:08 to the refinery, yeah. Yeah. So this is, you would call like, I guess, a pre-refinery. Yeah, that's what I said. We're kind of, yeah. We're pre-states of refinery. We're not full refinery,

32:18 but we're doing some easy grab work that we can take and then increase the value of that and get those molecules. But try to also get a greener, decarbonized opportunity on top of it. So let's dig

32:30 into that here. So I think there are definitely companies that are trying to measure and track the kind of carbon footprint of. I guess I'm gonna call them lots or barrels of oil. But they also,

32:41 like decidedly the US. does not have a market for kind of carbon-managed measurement. And a lot of the credits are voluntary, right? And so how do you

32:54 convince the customer that the premium is what they're paying for? Does that make any sense? Well, so, unfortunately we don't have to, the market's already there to do that and the government's

33:04 incentivizing that And companies are also committing themselves to hit certain targets. Sure, you know, obviously aviation fuels for all the planes, diesels for all the trains. You know, these

33:18 companies want to be able to transport their products and minimize their carbon footprint. Governments incentivizing them to do that as we're able to offer that to them to capture those programs and

33:31 they'll close the gap until, like I said, we can get processing down to a point more economical for the customer and it has volume. You can't run a plane on sustainable aviation fuel in Houston,

33:46 you can have it fly to Orlando or Chicago or New York, if they don't have sustainable aviation fuel there, you're engine's not gonna run right. You're not gonna switch over at every airport. It's

33:55 gonna just be terrible for your plane. You don't wanna ride in that plane as a passenger.

34:03 Not it can't exactly pull it over if you got a little bump in the engine But you gotta be consistent with the quality that you want. You do, we seem to have to. So when you're deploying and you're

34:10 setting up this type of, where you're producing this type of a product, you really have to consider how do you enter and how do you grow in that market to a point where you're world-class. And our

34:24 cost structure is set up so that we are, renew is profitable at a40 barrel. So we're not, putting any kind of expectations that we've got to have a150 barrel to be able to make money. So that's

34:37 one of our techniques. The other thing is too, is that we're providing blending services. So we'll be able to blend because we have such large tank volume. We actually have one of the largest tank

34:48 volume area that I know of, and so because of that, we're able to actually do blending and then it can blend those out So we can put in that opportunity to be able to say, Hey, okay, well, you

35:04 can't take pure green aviation fuel, but you may be able to take an 8020 or you may be able to take that kind of thing. So we can actually do that. And we're also, what the beauty of this

35:16 opportunity is, and this is really where Jason was commenting earlier, so the tendency is to look at just the crude oil. And the crude oil is great, but it is just one part of the story The other

35:28 part of the story is being able to take the plastics and those kind of things and be able to inject that where we can get a low cost from the garbage waste that would be going into the environment,

35:41 where it would actually take that and convert that into fuels and then inject those fuels into those blends. So also helping offset costs. So there's multiple streams and an opportunity way.

35:52 Remember, yeah, it's just really, really complex, but that's the whole point because that's what helps get our cost values back to where I'm not reliant upon the CO2. Now, we partnered with DLA

36:05 Piper as we're building a carbon marketplace. And I think our marketplace is then gonna help support where it's less voluntary. And now this is a financial model that we can then take off of. So

36:17 there's, again, it's several different layers. I step back and go, hey, I see this big opportunity, but there's gotta be a circular point of focus Right, so we have to have that focus to be

36:31 able to grow out of. and we feel like this is really that answer. 'Cause one thing we're doing this project here, but we also have another project where we're actually directly at the wellhead,

36:43 bringing this same technology through a couple other partnerships with you guys taught with, we taught with Catwell. We went on and reached out to them and they said, yeah, we'd love to partner

36:53 with you. So between them, we're actually gonna be purchasing some wells that we can actually go out and prove that we can capture that all the methane that's getting released from those We're gonna

37:03 nicely cap that, but we're gonna be able to onsite use stranded gas, be able to help clean that up, have a good, and then also be able to get those, so that process will show that we're not just

37:15 claiming credits, we're doing the work. And that's really kind of what's now what we're trying to change the narrative of. I think the reason it's been so difficult to really get a foothold on the

37:27 carbon marketplace was, is it's all speculative There's not been a real. here's a measurement, here's how it's getting done. And through our partnership with Intel and AI, we have server farms

37:39 that we were actually used to be able to build onto that to say, Hey, here's our proof data. We're using the blockchain. I like Bitcoin.

37:50 For those of you may have to leave that out of this podcast, but I'll leave it at the power coming up. I'm

37:55 using Bitcoin, but I'm using the blockchain to be able to say, Hey, we're giving public transaction plug with records, so these carbon credits are no longer speculative. They're being through

38:06 built data. And I think that's gonna start changing that narrative.

38:12 At least that's my initiative. And having partners like Jason and these other guys to say, We see the vision, we see it makes sense. It's an actual change that you can actually do something with.

38:26 I think that's really how we're gonna change that

38:30 narrative Can we also talk a little bit about that? business model here, because do you take ownership of the

38:39 asset at some point, the oil, the resources, or is it

38:45 still owned? How does it actually work? So there's a number of different contract structures. Most companies, they'll pay a storage fee and then a terminal fee. So they'll buy a certain amount of

38:58 space, like you would maybe for photos on iCloud or something, and you can shuffle your photos in and out of there as much as you want, and then there'll be bees around that. Now, in addition,

39:12 we can buy our own oil, we can hold on to it. There's enough space for us to go, Hey, we have really good market predictors. When you're holding physically the asset, it's a lot easier to trade

39:23 on than when you're holding it on paper, especially when you get it really cheap Yeah, you know, we're kind of already discussed. We're able to almost instantly improve the quality of anything we

39:34 bring in. So no matter what we buy, we've already, we already know that the value is going to be higher. So, and there's other ways, but just to kind of give you a few of the ways it works, you

39:47 know, you have most, it's most general, though, that you're just going to work. We're going to be dealing the majority of our business with companies that want to store and transfer on our site

39:58 and they'll be a benefit to them for doing that And that's how the contracts are written up. I always reference a midstream company is essentially a gas station. So they will purchase the fuels and

40:08 then they second point of sell to the customer. And so they're just this basically the same thing. It's just we're a warehouse for oil and gas and waste products and trying to clean them up and be

40:19 more environmentally friendly of those.

40:23 Sometimes acting as a brook. Yeah, sometimes acting as a brook. Awesome And how do you see, you know, 'cause right now, you guys have your own companies. And you're coming together as a joint

40:33 mentor for this project, you know, what do you envision for the long-term? How is this going to work? Well, we see the technology continuing to develop long-term is going to continue to purchase

40:45 and run efficiently Rudolph storage. We're going to need Technology that can that can deal with some of those that waste stream. So, you know, we look at this as a continuing partnership And you

40:59 know, well, I'll I'll try to find ways to get him to take up less land

41:04 And he's gonna find ways to to refine more products and yeah need to take up more space I can take up less land, but the less stuff you get

41:14 So that's our continent and flow just from my point of view Renew is doing a multitude of different projects We're looking at several islands that we're trying to bring in waste recovery from take the

41:24 waste from those islands So there'll be partnerships with they can come in that the renew does not want to be in storage and midstream business. We want to be in the cleaning and, you know, that

41:35 process technology type. And so it's really a great partnership because what this allows for renew is gives us the capability of expansion. So we also have a partnership with a company called Fantel

41:47 and they're our operators. So we don't just go in a company and say, hey, here's our stuff and go do it. We operate our own stuff. The IP stays within because we have patents, we also have trade

42:00 secrets. And for us to protect that IP, we want to make sure it's our people that are monitoring and growing and learning and all stays within house. So we brought in our own operations group to be

42:12 able to say, hey, you work for us. It all stays within this realm. And they're really a great partner too because they're also in this space and they can help us expand. So we're not stuck to a

42:21 local area. We can very easily globalize. And that was really important to me because this has to be a global answer. And how do you do that? Or you can only do that through partnerships and

42:34 having trusted partners that say, Hey, look, I need this growth space. Can you help me grow that? Yeah, everyone's capabilities are far beyond just crude storage. I mean, you could completely

42:45 eliminate landfill. I don't know if you can. Yeah, we can really, I actually should. I don't actually can't, we have the technology. So exciting 'cause you can do, you could take a lot of

42:54 these things that we've been living with forever. Right. And we actually have a project in San Antonio where we're gonna be doing just that. We'll take a landfill, recover that from our back to

43:04 where it's clean sand and be able to take those fuels and sell 'em and then we'll be able to turn that into a, once it's been proven that it's safe for habitation again, then we can take and use

43:15 that for other projects. So we also have a partnership with a non-profit that we plant trees. So we have a ton of different, there's a lot of different things that we're doing. We understand it's

43:26 a big spectrum opportunity. We actually are working with another green town lady. She's an invasive species. And so we're actually working with her where we can take those invasive species and turn

43:39 those into fuels. And so it's just, again, it's very complex. It's funny if we're actually looking at insects and, you know, or even like this. Mosquitoes. Mosquitoes. Yeah, it's made fun of.

43:51 It's turn them all over. I hear you're so soft. It's gotta be soft. Yeah. The conversion for those is a pretty big scale though. So financial support to help grow out the opportunities. And

44:04 that's really what I wanted to make sure of is whenever we're new started, that we didn't build ourselves in a corner where we couldn't grow. And so that structure had to be built on partnerships

44:15 and utilizing those and

44:18 having that help, say, hey, how do we help get this, you know, beyond Houston, beyond the US, beyond whatever. eventually one day I'd like to see our system on the moon and wherever else. I

44:30 mean, the partnerships are so essential, right? And for you as a startup to know that this is our expertise and our niche. And this is what we're going to focus on. And for other areas, if you

44:38 want to have more impact, if you want to do bigger projects, we have to have partnership and not have to do everything ourselves. I mean,

44:51 like well, Cap, I mean, what a, what a beautiful opportunity. Capwell, yeah, like Capwell, like Capwell, you know, that's a beautiful opportunity Because, you know, here's, here's a small

44:56 company that what's really been really cool and apologize for taking up so much time, but

45:04 what's really cool is my experience, I'm now able to actually come back into the community and go, have you thought about doing this? And this is really how you should be able to expand that out

45:16 and be able to help them too. So it's not only growth for me, it's growth for all the other people that were bringing into it, so he might kind of mentor and say, Hey, you know. We've, we've

45:27 had others that are mentoring me and saying, okay, how do we help grow this, this ecosystem within, um, since it's been kind of a challenge getting others coming in here, not understanding the

45:38 Houston ecosystem, um, and knowing how that we are very supportive of each other. And, and we've really want to see success out of everyone around us. That's been a real challenge because some of

45:50 these other coming in don't really understand that and they don't know how to deal with that. And, and so trying to cross that, it's really kind of crossing the chasm in, in that aspect because

46:02 it's like, well, that's not our model. We don't know what to do with that. You know, how do we, it's not going to work here. Yeah. Here is a different animal. Yeah. And, and so we feel like

46:12 this is part of that path forward. So what do you, um, what do you feel are kind of major stumbling blocks for you as you think about the next 18 months.

46:23 The answer can't be cash. Never cash. No,

46:27 you know, there's a disagree with you on that is a part of it's never the focus. There you go, because capital makes things grow, period, but it shouldn't be the focus. I'll let you go first,

46:41 and then I'll share what I think. Oh, man.

46:45 Well, I mean, I think our biggest challenge is going to be legislation is either going to be things that are government imposed or reduced that could impact us. It's on the horizon. The

47:02 uncertainty of that is a challenge. We're pretty short up on our construction plan. There's enough contingency in Wiggle Room in there. There may be a few things that might come up during some site

47:17 surveying, but nothing that really couldn't be overcome. And then

47:23 I'm there. I mean, that's really it. I don't see a lot of other holes, things that we haven't addressed. So growing a company and having had several other companies, politics is always a

47:35 challenge. I feel like that we've done a great deal of homework to try to help with that. We do know and have partnerships

47:46 with the local oil and gas industry. We know the industry, the industry knows us And so we feel like that we have pretty solid support on that.

47:58 We feel like the location is already in that area. We kind of picked, you know, it was a beautiful site. You could not ask for a better like, bro, this is amazing. So it's, you know, a lot of

48:11 those things, our industry experience, you kind of help resolve those. I really feel like the biggest challenges are going to be outside of Houston And that's really kind of, we've been working on

48:21 those. trying to get connected with several of the other officials. We want to know the officials, but not, we don't want any extremists. We're very powerful, like, look, man, I'm trying to

48:33 do something positive for everybody. And I don't want to be on one board or the other. I, you know, one of my mentors always misses you, goes, well, if I hate it in the room, then I'm doing

48:44 stuff right.

48:46 Because the idea is like, look, we all need this We all need to work on, if you have not woken up and realized that we have a problem with our waste, I'm sorry, you're in a bunker or you're in a

48:60 coma. Yeah, because it just, it's just an issue. We're way outside of it and how do we reduce it? We're not pushing one of the other sustainable needs. Talk to me a little bit about like that

49:11 moment for you. You like, we'll go up that day and said we got to manage our ways better.

49:17 Uh, well, mine started when I was five. So I started to tell us about it. Hey, I didn't think that's going to be allowed to be a problem. So I, I was worried about quicksand, but that's a

49:26 different.

49:28 So I, you know, at seven, I wanted to be an architect already. And what I wanted, like, I already have my life plan figured out. So hey, man, and I, I've kind of sort of stuck with that,

49:37 but, um, I think, you know, a lot of the school programs, when we're growing up in the 70s, it was very much focused on art day and, and doing better, um, I have a Christian background. So

49:53 those things are also stuck into that. Um, and so it's not a perspective of, of hate or, or anger or anything negative. It's more of we can do better. So why aren't you? Mm hmm. Um, and, and

50:10 so I think I feel like I've been given talents to, and, and the people around we have talents that if we can put those together. what a beautiful opportunity that is. And if you can find a way to

50:21 do it within a system that already exists, and yes, if we can get some help in there, awesome. But if you can do it within a system that already exists, why would you not want to do that? And

50:34 that's kind of really been my whole life. I've lived every, I've been in 48 countries, all 50 states, I've traveled a lot of this planet.

50:44 Everywhere I've gone, everywhere I've been, third world countries to some of the consider most best places in the world.

50:53 We all want to love our family. We want to take care of our family and provide for our future, regardless of where you're at. And so I think if we can focus on that and less on

51:06 these other heady businesses that we have, we could do so much more. And that's really kind of my background. It's just like, hey, why not? Why? Why can't you? And so I started, I started

51:19 recycling cans when I was, I think I was six or seven. And then the glass bottles, because you get paid for it's life. Yeah, I've been an entrepreneur since I was tiny. I actually had my own

51:31 lawn mowing business when I was 12. Like I've, you know, I've been entrepreneurial essentially my whole life. And it's been to my family, my father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, they

51:41 were all entrepreneurial. So it's just kind of a lifestyle that I grew up with. But I was looking for that opportunity. But so it just got me like, man, I just, all I have to do is take these

51:52 cans and put them in a bag and take them somewhere and I get some money, like, you know, there's not that much effort to it. And then as you get to teenagers and things like that, I think you

52:01 start realizing, you know, I love deep sea fishing. And I would be out deep sea fishing. There's like trash floating on the water, like. How is this everywhere? I mean, this is all in the

52:12 middle though. It took 30 miles out. You're not close to the land. Why is there trash out here? Like, does it make any sense? So those kind of like drive what drives me. Yeah, and Jason, you

52:24 mentioned that yeah, you said the carbon cycle is broken. Tell us a little bit more about that, means to you. Well, you know, there's a life cycle for everything. It has to, you know, the

52:38 time it takes for the carbon atom to form, break down, and then return itself as energy used to take place. I don't know the specifics. Yeah. It

53:01 is of course a carbon cycle still now. Yeah, but I saw a short YouTube video on it, so I'm going to ask for it. It hangs out long, you'll answer that in a couple of years, so. Yeah,

53:05 but it's a matter of like heat generation I guess the better way that I think about it is if you think about the Earth as a closed loop system. Um, you've got a lot more people on it that are made

53:16 up of water. The earth uses its surface water to control temperature. You have a lot of those resources now. You take it up and, um, localized, you've ever driven from Galveston to Houston.

53:27 Looked at your thermometer. You're going to notice it changes now, not that, that variability is a lot, but you got to think about a 10 degree variance in your body temperature. You know, has

53:36 quite an impact how much there's multiple temperature changes over the course of a huge planet Um, a lot in, in that balance was maintained, um, by, uh, by our atmosphere. And that compositions

53:52 change over time. Um, and so we kind of need to get it back to a more sustainable way where, you know, all of the different filtration and rain system, um, tidal waves, all the, all the stuff

54:05 that's used up to control this, um, this, those loop system is maintained a little more responsibly and a little more. Predictably, I think once we kind of figure that out, we'll resolve a lot

54:17 of other issues. So what we can do in the meantime, probably not gonna figure it out on this rock, gonna have to save it for the next one. But, you know, we could try to give ourselves a little

54:27 bit longer to figure it out by making changes like this now, recognizing the issue and addressing it rather than just letting it spin wildly out of control. Yeah, I refer to as this is our

54:40 cigarette moment, or we're at that stage where we realize that there's some issues, how we address that, how we do that without hurting other people, but at the same time, not creating a. The

54:53 thing is now we're living longer. There's more people on the planet. We're putting a burden on the planet just by us being here and getting into quantum mechanics and how we affect things and the

55:04 energy and energy not being able to be destroyed, and only transfer, it gets into, for me, it gets into. we just need to be responsible, that's it. It doesn't have to be some complex, hate

55:19 each other's story, just wrong. Yeah, nobody has to be here. Yeah, exactly, yeah, I mean, there's so many conspiracy theories that attract this kind of discussion, but if you just look at it

55:31 at a personal level, you're like, hey, I just want a clean environment for myself, right? You said, you know, I want to be healthy and I want to breathe clean air. Like even just thinking

55:41 about it at that level, like, why is that complicated? I want an environment around me where there are trees and prairies and like, you know, my life. Don't mess with Texas. Yeah. Yeah. It

55:50 was such a campaign. It's always like, yeah. And now you can't drop down a single street in this entire, and I love traveling. I love seeing, you can't drive anywhere in in state and you don't

55:59 see trash all over free ones. What happened to that, that Mark, you know, it didn't, it didn't hang. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, like I want to go to a park and not see a bunch of trash everywhere

56:08 and like, come on then. Mm-hmm. So yeah, it really, really if we just stop and look and I would have thought COVID kind of really would have woken that up because it made us somewhat realize you

56:20 know look at the French Riviera the animals coming back into the cities like

56:25 did you not stop and what just happened yeah that was a big deal like I don't think we should just blow that off yeah right yeah I mean I was you know we saw a dead armadillo on the street and I was

56:39 my son was like why do they live here why don't they go in the forest and I was like no they used to all live here we came

56:47 we came out of the forest yeah there's no more forest we came all down for houses that's why so yeah no that was truly inspiring to hear you guys share your stories and you know knowing that people

56:59 like you are out there actually trying to enact change and it might seem small but you know if we're all that are doing this if If you all are going in there with that mindset, we can actually fix

57:09 this. Yeah, it has to be an us problem. None of us is as good as all of us, right? Yeah. It stands. We all work together, we can do something. Yeah. So what can our audience do here to

57:20 support you guys?

57:24 We'll go to Chris first. Sharing the message, really. I mean, my comment at the growth of a company is funding and marketing. If you have those two things, if you have a good message and you

57:36 have a good substance, those two things will help you cross that chasm. And I think for us, that's really kind of the

57:43 deal, is just having that support, people paying attention and saying, hey, you know, I know this thing over here, I know that thing, we do have to be careful of not getting too thin and being

57:54 focused. But if we don't, if people don't know about us, if they don't know that the technology is out there, then we're not getting the, you know, the other CEOs coming to us and saying, hey,

58:05 how do we get involved? The partnership with Intel, you know, that's the huge to have such a tiny little company of nobody's to be connected with corporates are a really big deal and because they

58:18 have more of a voice than we do and so that's what we're kind of I'm looking for is being able to say hey we recognize what you guys are trying to do is good and help support that effort.

58:32 For me just getting I mean we feel like we have the support of our friends and family and a lot of our business partners so I would just you know volunteer in your community you know start locally and

58:44 see where that grows you know if any kids are out there listening just you know shut the computer off for a couple hours a day go touch some grass and if you see some trash I'll have to pick it up.

58:55 Go ahead and help feed Renu yeah exactly and

59:00 if people want to learn more about I guess Longhorn where should they go? Longhorn-energycom

59:09 got everything you need to know, can tell you a lot about the owners, where we're located, what high level overview of our plan, and there's a contact sheet that's going to get involved. Cool.

59:20 And then renew. How do we spell renew? RE and you. All right. So we went with a British flavor. So that's all of our fellows across the pond.

59:31 Yeah. And would that be renewenergyservicescom? Correct. Yeah. There we go. RE and you energyservicescom. All right And

59:38 we also have, we're on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. And I'm working on the other social media pages. That's not my. Oh, and I wanted to. Well, that's the best. Science and energy

59:48 account. You're TikTok. You're watching. Yes. Yes. I actually get involved in the behalf energy account. The TikTok sharing the stories, I think that's something that's really important for us

59:56 that we're wanting to, you know, so doing some content media and kind of sharing these stories are really important. And being on here is huge. We really appreciate you. Yeah a great chance to

1:00:08 discuss what we're doing and just.

1:00:12 you know, educate more people that there's, there's other ways to, ways to do it. Yeah, yeah. And having guys like Jason here that can kill, oh, smooth out my rough edges. As many people know,

1:00:21 talking to engineers and scientists or challenging, 'cause we live in a different world. So it's a, I'll always get my, my, my team keeps saying, Hey man, you need to dumb this down to a five

1:00:32 year old. Like, I thought I did.

1:00:35 So sorry, man, I'll work on it some more So I'm just gonna get more five year olds in your life.

1:00:41 Well, mine's 15, I'm happy to. Yeah, the monitoring college, so we don't let them do them.